Open carry question

[Wonderwhippet]

Recently there was an open carry group which met in Escondido. They were carrying weapons openly and unloaded, in accordance with the law. The North County Times showed a photo of one member of this group having her weapon inspected by a LEO, supposedly to make sure it was unloaded. My question is, does the law require that a weapon in such a situation be surrendered for inspection, or is it a violation of one's constitutional rights? Can one refuse to render an open carry weapon for inspection? Understandably, if the weapon is being brandished or used in a threatening manner, or if the carrying individual appears to be underage, drunk, incapacitated or a suspected convicted felon, then the weapon is subject to inspection and/or confiscation.

[Fire in the Hole]

Recently there was an open carry group which met in Escondido. They were carrying weapons openly and unloaded, in accordance with the law. The North County Times showed a photo of one member of this group having her weapon inspected by a LEO, supposedly to make sure it was unloaded. My question is, does the law require that a weapon in such a situation be surrendered for inspection, or is it a violation of one's constitutional rights? Can one refuse to render an open carry weapon for inspection? Understandably, if the weapon is being brandished or used in a threatening manner, or if the carrying individual appears to be underage, drunk, incapacitated or a suspected convicted felon, then the weapon is subject to inspection and/or confiscation.

"My question is, does the law require that a weapon in such a situation be surrendered for inspection?"

Yes.

"Is it a violation of one's constitutional rights?

No.

"Can one refuse to render an open carry weapon for inspection?"

Yes, which will subsequently met with an arrest.

[ke6guj]

12031(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

[Gnzrme]

However many here on this forum believe this is a violation of their 4th amendment rights....

[BananaTyrant]

"
"Is it a violation of one's constitutional rights?

No.

Actually, it does violate your 4A rights. It is an unreasonable search and seizure. To be reasonable you need to have a reason to search someone. Like evidence of a crime or intention to commit a crime. It is not illegal to open carry unloaded, so that alone is not a good enough reason.

For more info see the video series made by another calgunner and his brother;

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=pullnshoot25&view=videos

[cmonk518]

Short of you having a badge next to your open carry firearm and holster ANYWHERE in CA, you are most likely going to get encountered by LE. They might not aggresively go out of their own way to stakeout people who legally open carry, but if they run into anyone in public with an exposed firearm, its their job to be inquisitive.

And you can have all the knowledge in the world regarding laws, statues, amendments, constitutional rights, forum advice, etc. and tell them all to the LEO and you will only make him/her probably upset (or laugh hysterically in their own head). It's their job to protect, so its within their rights to question anybody with an exposed firearm. It would be mitigating their own duty and responsibility if they DIDN'T ask and check.

[4D5auto]

Gotta ask as I am not familiar with open carry in CA, which doesn't pertain to me as I have a CCW for CA. What is the sense of OC if your weapon is not loaded? Can you posess ammo on your person, while Open Carry? Just asking

[Jonathan Doe]

Revolver or semiautomatic, it is hard to tell if it is unloaded or not. Semiautomatic without a magazine also could have a round in the chamber unless the slide is locked to the rear. I think inspection is not a violation of person's right. The person knows it is unloaded, but everyone else doesn't.

I always question the reason of unloaded open carry. Yes, it is a right, but is it practical?

[ke6guj]

What is the sense of OC if your weapon is not loaded? Can you posess ammo on your person, while Open Carry? Just asking

Yes, they can carry ammo on them while UOC. So, the firearm is not immediately loaded, but could be within seconds, if needed.

[4D5auto]

So, if you carry an auto unloaded, you can have your loaded magazine readly accessible on your person, say on your belt?

What is the U in the term you provide, UOC?

[Ron-Solo]

Actually, it does violate your 4A rights. It is an unreasonable search and seizure. To be reasonable you need to have a reason to search someone. Like evidence of a crime or intention to commit a crime. It is not illegal to open carry unloaded, so that alone is not a good enough reason.

For more info see the video series made by another calgunner and his brother;

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=...25&view=videos

Please note that this is just an OPINION, which is currently in conflict with current court decisions. Don't count on this as a defense.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just want the OP to know the difference between legal standing and another CalGunner's opinion.

Just because you wish something to be true, doesn't make it so...........

Aloha,

Ron

[Adehtla]

Yes, they can carry ammo on them while UOC. So, the firearm is not immediately loaded, but could be within seconds, if needed.

For me, less than two. It's not a pretty motion, but it can get the job done.

[Got Stuff?]

Revolver or semiautomatic, it is hard to tell if it is unloaded or not. Semiautomatic without a magazine also could have a round in the chamber unless the slide is locked to the rear. I think inspection is not a violation of person's right. The person knows it is unloaded, but everyone else doesn't.

I always question the reason of unloaded open carry. Yes, it is a right, but is it practical?

Following that logic, the officers should also be able to go door to door, come into my house asking for papers and such without warrants or cause to make sure I am living here legally etc. After all, at first glance I may be in the country illegally so they need to make sure.

Before we know it, they will be stopping us in our cars on the street randomly asking for papers just to make sure our license is current.

[4D5auto]

Following that logic, the officers should also be able to go door to door, come into my house asking for papers and such without warrants or cause to make sure I am living here legally etc. After all, at first glance I may be in the country illegally so they need to make sure.

Before we know it, they will be stopping us in our cars on the street randomly asking for papers just to make sure our license is current.

Yes sir! Can you say DUI Checkpoint?

[retired]

Following that logic, the officers should also be able to go door to door, come into my house asking for papers and such without warrants or cause to make sure I am living here legally etc. After all, at first glance I may be in the country illegally so they need to make sure.

Before we know it, they will be stopping us in our cars on the street randomly asking for papers just to make sure our license is current.

I don't see a question nor a reply to the OP. The below would be apropo:

Rule 3. This is NOT a place to air your dislike of the Government, Law Enforcement, LEOs in general or the law in general. Doing so here will result in losing access to this forum.

The same goes for you 4D5auto.^