LEO PPT Question

[ap3572001]

If you list it on line and sell it out of state. it's not sent to your boss

If you sell it to other LE its not sent to your boss.

all other CA ppt will be sent to your boss

Consignment at the store ? Same thing as doing PPT ?

[ASD1]

Consignment at the store ? Same thing as doing PPT ?

yes consignments get run as a ppt.

but you do not know the buyer an that gives you deniability that you are hooking up people you know.

[ASD1]

I also don't understand the difference between LEO putting off roster pistol on consignment and selling yourself via PPT?

there is not any.

[ASD1]

Consignment at the store ? Same thing as doing PPT ?

yes

[kwest10]

I also don't understand the difference between LEO putting off roster pistol on consignment and selling yourself via PPT?

It?s really the same thing. Gun gets sold.
HOW it gets sold can possibly differ but it gets sold either way.
Consignment holds and sells your gun for you and takes a fee. Some gun shops may just outright buy the gun off of you and resell it themselves. Consignment is basically a middle man.
If you?re buying and selling off roster for legitimate use and can articulate why you?re doing so and don?t violate the rules, you should be fine.
I bought a Gen5 g19 due to pending approval for use only to be told it wasn?t approved. Sold it to buy a g48 then then agency approved gen4 g19 which I sold the g48 for. Then the agency eventually approved the gen5 g19 and I sold the gen4 g19 to buy the gen5 g19. No one came knocking on my door but I did get that odd CA DOJ letter many have gotten. If you legitimately are buying stuff for duty use and fine it doesn?t fit your needs, you should be ok. Just don?t be like that idiot Lt. with Sierra Madre PD.

[Quiet]

Can you tell me what code or even CA DOJ rule "requires" the agency to put that in a peace officer's personnel file? I only ask because I'm pretty sure agencies are required to notify their personnel and allow them to review documents before they just stick them into their jacket, reference GC 3305.

I understand the argument could be made that the PPT of an off roster pistol to a non-sworn/non-exempt person isn't necessarily "adverse" in and of itself however it could most definitely be considered "adverse" if some type of allegation popped up.

I've sold several off-roster guns and my agency never notified me of anything being put in my jacket. Perhaps I'll just go have a look and see, and, if I do, I'll post another comment.

AFAIK...

It's not any agency requirement.

It's a CA DOJ requirement. [PC 32000(e)]


Penal Code 32000
(a)(2) The failure to report to the Department of Justice in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (2) of subdivision (e) the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) may be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(3) In addition to any criminal penalty provided in paragraph (1), the unlawful sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) may be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(e)(1) The Department of Justice shall maintain a database of unsafe handguns obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b). This requirement shall apply retroactively to include information in the department's possession. The department may satisfy this requirement by maintaining this information in any existing firearm database that reasonably facilitates compliance with this subdivision.
(2) A person or entity that is in possession of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b), shall notify the department of any sale or transfer of that handgun within 72 hours of the sale or transfer in a manner and format prescribed by the department. This requirement shall be deemed satisfied if the sale or transfer is processed through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 27545. A sale or transfer accomplished through an exception to Section 27545 is not exempt from this reporting requirement.
(3) By no later than March 1, 2021, the department shall provide a notification to persons or entities possessing an unsafe handgun pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) regarding the prohibitions on the sale or transfer of that handgun contained in this section. Thereafter, the department shall, upon notification of sale or transfer, provide the same notification to the purchaser or transferee of any unsafe handgun sold or transferred pursuant to those provisions.

[RickD427]

AFAIK...

It's not any agency requirement.

It's a CA DOJ requirement. [PC 32000(e)]


Penal Code 32000
(a)(2) The failure to report to the Department of Justice in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (2) of subdivision (e) the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) may be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(3) In addition to any criminal penalty provided in paragraph (1), the unlawful sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) may be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(e)(1) The Department of Justice shall maintain a database of unsafe handguns obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b). This requirement shall apply retroactively to include information in the department's possession. The department may satisfy this requirement by maintaining this information in any existing firearm database that reasonably facilitates compliance with this subdivision.
(2) A person or entity that is in possession of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b), shall notify the department of any sale or transfer of that handgun within 72 hours of the sale or transfer in a manner and format prescribed by the department. This requirement shall be deemed satisfied if the sale or transfer is processed through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 27545. A sale or transfer accomplished through an exception to Section 27545 is not exempt from this reporting requirement.
(3) By no later than March 1, 2021, the department shall provide a notification to persons or entities possessing an unsafe handgun pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) regarding the prohibitions on the sale or transfer of that handgun contained in this section. Thereafter, the department shall, upon notification of sale or transfer, provide the same notification to the purchaser or transferee of any unsafe handgun sold or transferred pursuant to those provisions.

Quiet,

I'm not seeing any requirement in PC 32000(e) for an LEO's employing agency to record anything in an employees file. Am I missing something here?

The only duties imposed under section 32000(e) are upon the Department of Justice and upon a "person or entity" that possesses a qualified firearm. There is nothing in the statute that imposes any duty on an agency employing an LEO.

[Quiet]

AFAIK...

It's not any agency requirement.

It's a CA DOJ requirement. [PC 32000(e)]


Penal Code 32000
(a)(2) The failure to report to the Department of Justice in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (2) of subdivision (e) the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) may be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(3) In addition to any criminal penalty provided in paragraph (1), the unlawful sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) may be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(e)(1) The Department of Justice shall maintain a database of unsafe handguns obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b). This requirement shall apply retroactively to include information in the department's possession. The department may satisfy this requirement by maintaining this information in any existing firearm database that reasonably facilitates compliance with this subdivision.
(2) A person or entity that is in possession of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b), shall notify the department of any sale or transfer of that handgun within 72 hours of the sale or transfer in a manner and format prescribed by the department. This requirement shall be deemed satisfied if the sale or transfer is processed through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 27545. A sale or transfer accomplished through an exception to Section 27545 is not exempt from this reporting requirement.
(3) By no later than March 1, 2021, the department shall provide a notification to persons or entities possessing an unsafe handgun pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) regarding the prohibitions on the sale or transfer of that handgun contained in this section. Thereafter, the department shall, upon notification of sale or transfer, provide the same notification to the purchaser or transferee of any unsafe handgun sold or transferred pursuant to those provisions.

Quiet,

I'm not seeing any requirement in PC 32000(e) for an LEO's employing agency to record anything in an employees file. Am I missing something here?

The only duties imposed under section 32000(e) are upon the Department of Justice and upon a "person or entity" that possesses a qualified firearm. There is nothing in the statute that imposes any duty on an agency employing an LEO.

You are not missing anything.

Quoted parts in bold that concurs what your conclusion.

[kilrain]

Just a bit of advice to you guys. Just know that when you do a PPT of an off roster firearm, we are required to notify on DROS that you are an LEO and we need to pick from a drop down what agency you work for. Your head of dept will be sent a letter notifying them of the entire PPT transaction. They are required to keep this in your file.

You are not missing anything.

Quoted parts in bold that concurs what your conclusion.

Quiet, the part in bold in taperxz post was what I was asking about. I know you aren't him and agree that DOJ keeps a record of "off-roster" firearm purchases, just like they do all purchases, but was wondering where the part about DOJ notifying an agency's department head of the sale of an "off-roster" firearm then putting that in an individual peace officer's file came from...

I thinking there may be a misunderstanding but am genuinely curious.

[TJW]

I don't read in there anywhere that DOJ notifies the officer's agency of the sale of an off-roster firearm. Everything in the section quoted where it reads "department" is referring to the Department of Justice, not the officer's department.

There is no requirement for the DOJ to notify the officer's agency when/if they sell an off-roster firearm.

Let alone that the officer's agency keeps a record of what off-roster firearm(s) an officer sold.

Nothing is put in an officer's personnel file without them being notified. And additionally anytime something is removed from an officer's personnel file they are also notified of the removal.

[TJW]

all other CA ppt will be sent to your boss

Wrong

[TJW]

Just a bit of advice to you guys. Just know that when you do a PPT of an off roster firearm, we are required to notify on DROS that you are an LEO and we need to pick from a drop down what agency you work for. Your head of dept will be sent a letter notifying them of the entire PPT transaction. They are required to keep this in your file.

You are wrong on all counts.

1. When an officer sells an off-roster firearm via PPT in CA, the only ID that the seller needs to provide the FFL is their driver's license/ID/etc. There is no requirement for the seller to show a department ID, identify themselves as an officer, or explain how then came into possession of the off-roster firearm. The FFL does not have access to any database that would indicate that the seller is an officer or know where they work.

2. No letter is sent to the officer's agency.

3. The officer's agency does not keep any PPT records in the officer's personnel file.

[TJW]

If LEO buys an off roster handgun, is there a legal time limit the gun must be owned before selling? Any legal code reference? Thanks.

No, just use common sense. Don't buy an off-roster firearm for the purpose of reselling it.

[tigerpan]

You are wrong on all counts.

1. When an officer sells an off-roster firearm via PPT in CA, the buyer nor the FFL know that the seller is an officer. The FFL has no idea that the seller is an officer . The only ID that the seller needs to provide the FFL is their driver's license. There is no requirement for the seller to show a department ID or identify themselves as an officer. The FFL does not have access to any database that would indicate that the seller if an officer.

2. No letter is sent to the officer's agency.

3. The officer's agency does not keep any PPT records in the officer's personnel file.

Last time I did ppt with my friend the ffl ask my friend if his officer or no. Something about Leo sell off roster.

[TJW]

Last time I did ppt with my friend the ffl ask my friend if his officer or no. Something about Leo sell off roster.

No requirement to identify oneself as an officer when selling PPT of off-roster firearm.