LEO PPT Question

[flanker777]

If LEO buys an off roster handgun, is there a legal time limit the gun must be owned before selling? Any legal code reference? Thanks.

[RickD427]

If LEO buys an off roster handgun, is there a legal time limit the gun must be owned before selling? Any legal code reference? Thanks.

There is no statutory time period, and therefore no code section to cite.

The key issue is whether the LEO is dealing in firearms in violation of Penal Code section 26500. If the officer exceeds the number of permitted transactions under section 26520, and no other source of exemption applies, then there is a pretty clear violation.

But even if the officer engages in fewer transactions, it's still possible to show a violation if the officer purchased a firearm intending to re-sell it.

[mossy]

..................this is why CA politicians are trying to remove LEO exemptions.

[0321 U.S.M.C]

No ?legal time limit? but now DES is asking if seller LEO. Best advice don?t buy your friends guns.

[Quiet]

Per BATFE... (take note of the parts in bold)

As a general rule, you will need a FFL if you repetitively buy and sell firearms with the principal motive of making a profit. [18 USC 922(a)(1)(A)]

In contrast, if you only make occasional sales of firearms from your personal collection, you do not need to be licensed.

In either case, all of your firearms transactions are relevant, regardless of their location; it does not matter if sales are conducted out of your home, at gun shows, flea markets, through the internet, or by other means.

There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement.

Similarly, there is no magic number related to the frequency of transactions that indicates whether a person is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms.

It is important to note, however, that even a few firearms transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms.

For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a FFL when as few as two firearms were sold, or when only one or two transactions took place. That said, courts have looked at both the quantity of firearms sold, as well as the frequency of sales, as relevant indicators. When combined with other factors, selling large numbers of firearms or engaging in frequent transactions may be highly indicative of business activity.

In addition to the volume and frequency of firearms transactions, the timing and circumstances surrounding firearm transactions are also significant indicators of whether a person is engaged in the business.

Repetitively selling or offering to sell firearms shortly after they are acquired; restocking inventory; repetitively acquiring the same type of firearm or a large quantity of the same type of firearm, and then reselling or offering to sell those firearms; and/or repetitively acquiring and reselling or offering to sell firearms in unopened or original packaging (or in new condition), are all factors which individually or combined may indicate a person is engaged in the business.

[ronlglock]

Several LEO who bought off-roster from me got a letter in the mail from DOJ reminding them of what a straw purchase was.

This was about a year ago.

[taperxz]

Just a bit of advice to you guys. Just know that when you do a PPT of an off roster firearm, we are required to notify on DROS that you are an LEO and we need to pick from a drop down what agency you work for. Your head of dept will be sent a letter notifying them of the entire PPT transaction. They are required to keep this in your file.

[Quiet]

Just a bit of advice to you guys. Just know that when you do a PPT of an off roster firearm, we are required to notify on DROS that you are an LEO and we need to pick from a drop down what agency you work for. Your head of dept will be sent a letter notifying them of the entire PPT transaction. They are required to keep this in your file.

Parts in bold below...

Penal Code 32000
(a)(1) A person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends an unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.
(2) The failure to report to the Department of Justice in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (2) of subdivision (e) the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) may be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(3) In addition to any criminal penalty provided in paragraph (1), the unlawful sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) may be subject to a civil penalty not to exceed ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(4) The sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to, or purchased by, the Department of Justice, a police department, a sheriff's official, a marshal's office, the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, the Department of the California Highway Patrol, any district attorney's office, any federal law enforcement agency, or the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for use in the discharge of their official duties. This section does not prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of a handgun.
(6) Subject to the limitations set forth in subdivision (c), the sale or purchase of a handgun for use as a service weapon, if the handgun is sold to, or purchased by, any of the following entities for use by, or sold to or purchased by, sworn members of these entities who have satisfactorily completed the POST basic course or, before January 1, 2021, have satisfactorily completed the firearms portion of a training course prescribed by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) pursuant to Section 832, and who, as a condition of carrying that handgun, complete a live-fire qualification prescribed by their employing entity at least once every six months:
(A) The Department of Parks and Recreation.
(B) The Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control.
(C) The Division of Investigation of the Department of Consumer Affairs.
(D) The Department of Motor Vehicles.
(E) The Fraud Division of the Department of Insurance.
(F) The State Department of State Hospitals.
(G) The Department of Fish and Wildlife.
(H) The State Department of Developmental Services.
(I) The Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
(J) A county probation department.
(K) The Los Angeles World Airports, as defined in Section 830.15.
(L) A K?12 public school district for use by a school police officer, as described in Section 830.32.
(M) A municipal water district for use by a park ranger, as described in Section 830.34.
(N) A county for use by a welfare fraud investigator or inspector, as described in Section 830.35.
(O) A county for use by the coroner or the deputy coroner, as described in Section 830.35.
(P) The Supreme Court and the courts of appeal for use by marshals of the Supreme Court and bailiffs of the courts of appeal, and coordinators of security for the judicial branch, as described in Section 830.36.
(Q) A fire department or fire protection agency of a county, city, city and county, district, or the state for use by either of the following:
(i) A member of an arson-investigating unit, regularly paid and employed in that capacity pursuant to Section 830.37.
(ii) A member other than a member of an arson-investigating unit, regularly paid and employed in that capacity pursuant to Section 830.37.
(R) The University of California Police Department, or the California State University Police Departments, as described in Section 830.2.
(S) A California Community College police department, as described in Section 830.32.
(T) A harbor or port district or other entity employing peace officers described in subdivision (b) of Section 830.33, the San Diego Unified Port District Harbor Police, and the Harbor Department of the City of Los Angeles.
(U) A local agency employing park rangers described in subdivision (b) of Section 830.31.
(V) The Department of Cannabis Control.
(7)(A) Subject to the limitations set forth in subdivision (c), the sale or purchase of a handgun, if the handgun is sold to, or purchased by, any of the following entities for use as a service weapon by the sworn members of these entities who have satisfactorily completed the POST basic course or, before January 1, 2021, have satisfactorily completed the firearms portion of a training course prescribed by the POST pursuant to Section 832, and who, as a condition of carrying that handgun, complete a live-fire qualification prescribed by their employing entity at least once every six months:
(i) The California Horse Racing Board.
(ii) The State Department of Health Care Services.
(iii) The State Department of Public Health.
(iv) The State Department of Social Services.
(v) The Department of Toxic Substances Control.
(vi) The Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development.
(vii) The Public Employees? Retirement System.
(viii) The Department of Housing and Community Development.
(ix) Investigators of the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation.
(x) The Law Enforcement Branch of the Office of Emergency Services.
(xi) The California State Lottery.
(xii) The Franchise Tax Board.
(B) This paragraph does not authorize the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of the entities specified in subparagraph (A) in a personal capacity.
(c)(1) Notwithstanding Section 26825, a person licensed pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, shall not process the sale or transfer of an unsafe handgun between a person who has obtained an unsafe handgun pursuant to an exemption specified in paragraph (6) or (7) of subdivision (b) and a person who is not exempt from the requirements of this section.
(e)(1) The Department of Justice shall maintain a database of unsafe handguns obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b). This requirement shall apply retroactively to include information in the department's possession. The department may satisfy this requirement by maintaining this information in any existing firearm database that reasonably facilitates compliance with this subdivision.
(2) A person or entity that is in possession of an unsafe handgun obtained pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b), shall notify the department of any sale or transfer of that handgun within 72 hours of the sale or transfer in a manner and format prescribed by the department. This requirement shall be deemed satisfied if the sale or transfer is processed through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 27545. A sale or transfer accomplished through an exception to Section 27545 is not exempt from this reporting requirement.
(3) By no later than March 1, 2021, the department shall provide a notification to persons or entities possessing an unsafe handgun pursuant to paragraph (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (b) regarding the prohibitions on the sale or transfer of that handgun contained in this section. Thereafter, the department shall, upon notification of sale or transfer, provide the same notification to the purchaser or transferee of any unsafe handgun sold or transferred pursuant to those provisions.

[ap3572001]

Just a bit of advice to you guys. Just know that when you do a PPT of an off roster firearm, we are required to notify on DROS that you are an LEO and we need to pick from a drop down what agency you work for. Your head of dept will be sent a letter notifying them of the entire PPT transaction. They are required to keep this in your file.

So basically , as an LEO , when I buy any off roster handgun and it doesn't quite work for me , what is the best way to sell it ? Assuming it's 5 or less PPT's per year ? What is the best way to go about it to satisfy the law 100%.

[tigerpan]

So basically , as an LEO , when I buy any off roster handgun and it doesn't quite work for me , what is the best way to sell it ? Assuming it's 5 or less PPT's per year ? What is the best way to go about it to satisfy the law 100%.

Transfer to your wife, and let her sale it.

[ap3572001]

Transfer to your wife, and let her sale it.

Not married....

[kilrain]

Just a bit of advice to you guys. Just know that when you do a PPT of an off roster firearm, we are required to notify on DROS that you are an LEO and we need to pick from a drop down what agency you work for. Your head of dept will be sent a letter notifying them of the entire PPT transaction. They are required to keep this in your file.

Can you tell me what code or even CA DOJ rule "requires" the agency to put that in a peace officer's personnel file? I only ask because I'm pretty sure agencies are required to notify their personnel and allow them to review documents before they just stick them into their jacket, reference GC 3305.

I understand the argument could be made that the PPT of an off roster pistol to a non-sworn/non-exempt person isn't necessarily "adverse" in and of itself however it could most definitely be considered "adverse" if some type of allegation popped up.

I've sold several off-roster guns and my agency never notified me of anything being put in my jacket. Perhaps I'll just go have a look and see, and, if I do, I'll post another comment.

[ASD1]

So basically , as an LEO , when I buy any off roster handgun and it doesn't quite work for me , what is the best way to sell it ? Assuming it's 5 or less PPT's per year ? What is the best way to go about it to satisfy the law 100%.

If you list it on line and sell it out of state. it's not sent to your boss

If you sell it to other LE its not sent to your boss.

all other CA ppt will be sent to your boss

[ap3572001]

I also don't understand the difference between LEO putting off roster pistol on consignment and selling yourself via PPT?

[M1NM]

LEOs dept may have their own rules. Go ahead and buy it. It's his head that could be on the block not yours.