Got pulled over for speeding-Two questions

[locosway]

If a LEO lights you up, pull over immediately. He/she will tell you via the loud speaker if they want you to go somewhere else. It's the LEO responsibility to insure the public's and your safety. If they error, the city is responsible if you followed the LEO's direction.

So, if the LEO has you stop on train tracks because they ordered you to you should comply? I'd like to think the general public has a little more control over their own safety and life.

[retired]

Come on locosway, you know that he didn't mean it that way and you are reaching if you believe a leo is going to have you stop on the tracks. Realize, if he did, he would be on the tracks also when he is talking to you. If for no other reason than that, I highly doubt it would be done.

Debate is fine, arguing for argument's sake is not and one can "what if" all day long.

[locosway]

I think my point that it's never cut and dry the way it should be. Ideally everyone would pull to the right, not stop in the fast lane, not create an accident by trying to slow for PD.

I just want people to know they have the option of using their judgement. Too often people are lead around like sheep when all they needed to do was question the circumstances.

[Neil McCauley]

He checked inside your pockets, and told you it was fuzzy? Do you have holes in your pockets?

wtf

[eltee]

Ok, so I'll say I was wrong on the code 3 thing.

However, I won't agree that a cruiser is any more equiped for high speed travel than a sports car. In fact, the sports car would likely have a suspension more in tune for high speed travel. I know cruisers get the heavy duty suspension or service suspension, but that does nothing for high speeds.

Also, do officers train for high speeds? I know the CHP does, but I don't think normal departments do. The physics of driving over 100 or 120 mph change the vehicles handling drastically.

If you've ever driving 150 mph you know that cars come up very very quickly.

Read the last sentence in the third paragraph of post # 25 where I talk about high end cars being faster than ours. We are IN AGREEMENT about performance cars often being faster or better suited for hi speed road work than a typical pursuit car !

However, it is more than just suspension. In our pursuit cars the chassis is stiffened, the height is lowered, we have special rims and tires, steering and brakes are modified, different third member and ratio, etc. Sure, not a Porsche but more than simple suspension mods. I don't know what you base your "...HD suspension...does nothing for high speeds.." comment on but ask anyone about the physics of high speed driving and they will likely challenge that assertion. Also, most freeways are relatively straight with mildly radiused curves, so a freeway flier Police Interceptor may actually perform better than a "sports car" setup for windy roads with tight turns.

Of course, there was an era when the pursuit car was a hopped up Ford Taurus and we couldn't catch a cold in them.

Yes, we train for extreme high speed pursuit driving even if not CHP. In my earlier post I mentioned a pro race car driver was one of our instructors. While CHP officers may get more emphasis on freeway pursuits than a city/county cop (and I don't know that for a fact) many surface street pursuits end up on the freeway with that city / county cop in pursuit. The avg. speed on the high speed course was 90MPH...the AVERAGE. So century plus speeds are not uncommon.

[locosway]

I'm not even sure anymore what we were talking about... Anyway, here is some info on the interceptor. While there are a lot of differences (mostly small) between the normal crown vic and the police model there are some discrepancies from what you said.

The rims aren't special, they're cheap steel rims.

Tires are probably standard H rated or perhaps Z rated on some of the interceptors. I don't think you'll ever see a W rating on a patrol car.

I have yet to see sub-frame connectors welded into a cruiser to stiffen up the chasis. The ride height is not lowered, the suspension is beefed up a bit to handle dips and what not without bottoming out the car during a pursuit.

Steering isn't changed, brakes are just ceramic pads like most new cars.

I actually have a SSP Mustang out front of my house, it's the second one I've restored. The good thing I WILL say about the crown vics are the safety ratings. They're the only production car tested for a 80 mph rear end collision. If I was spending my time on the side of the road, that's the car I'd want to be in.

p.s. Your department may actually upgrade parts on the crown vic, but I find that highly unlikely for numerous reasons.

[Sheepdog1968]

Most of the fake pullovers inc. the celebrated Carl Chessman case, involved unmarked cars with a mail order red light. Police auction, surplused Crown Vic and a red light and you have an instant unmarked car.

I don't recall any such incidents with marked cars with rooftop light bars. In Calif. there is a lookalike cop car proscription (I think it arose out of the New York Pizza Delivery / NYPD sedans a while back).

You're right, I've told my wife not to yield in an isolated area to an unmarked car. If she gets charged with failure to yield, I'll let the court decide what was reasonable.

Had a LEO friend of mine in the Bay Area say that in his Dept unmaked cars aren't allowed to pull people over. They need to call in a marked black and white for the reason mentioned above. Was a subtopic of a subtopic of a conversation so I don't remember any more specifics than that.

[eltee]

Had a LEO friend of mine in the Bay Area say that in his Dept unmaked cars aren't allowed to pull people over. They need to call in a marked black and white for the reason mentioned above. Was a subtopic of a subtopic of a conversation so I don't remember any more specifics than that.

Technically, where I work that is supposed to be what we do, call in a marked unit for the stop.

[Lancear15]

Always pull over immediately. If they wanted you to pull over further down the road he would have followed you further down the road and then lit you up. He can also direct you over the PA once you pull over if he wants to get to a safer location. Also if he was not pulling you over but just trying to get past you, then you are very much so failing to yield.

[Ron-Solo]

So, if the LEO has you stop on train tracks because they ordered you to you should comply? I'd like to think the general public has a little more control over their own safety and life.

Now this is just getting ridiculous.

[Rivers]

Always pull over immediately. If they wanted you to pull over further down the road he would have followed you further down the road and then lit you up. He can also direct you over the PA once you pull over if he wants to get to a safer location. Also if he was not pulling you over but just trying to get past you, then you are very much so failing to yield.

That is under the assumption that "whoever" is pulling you over is a) a real LEO who b) does not have felonious intent. Craig Peyer WAS a CHP who liked to rape and murder. If you're a LEO who doesn't like that a motorist is now legally empowered to USE DISCRETION to evaluate the safety of a stop's location, thank Mr. Peyer for messing up your game.

So there is no misunderstanding, the motorist must proceed at a slower and safe speed that recognizes the intent of the LEO to stop the vehicle. Driving otherwise is not in compliance with this safety measure.

In truth, any safety-conscious LEO would either wait for a safe area to stop a motorist, or would respect the motorist's concern that stopping in a dark, deserted stretch of the road does not provide adequate security for anyone. Consider, if the motorist was a BG who intended to do the LEO harm, the BG would want darkness with no witnesses. The well-lit parking lot benefits both the motorist and the LEO. Any LEO who gives me or mine a bad time about that is certainly going to hear from his superiors in a very short time.

[Ron-Solo]

All the paranoia about phony LEO is almost amusing, since it is such a rare and isolated occurence.

Unless there is something to indicate the stop is fake, just pull over.I often make 30+ stops a shift. I always take my safety and the safety of the motorist into account. Don't try to outguess the officer about what is safe. When working the field I once had a person try to say they didn't believe I was a real cop even though there were 4 marked Black & whites (plus mine) and a helicopter trying to stop her. She got a very expensive ticket. The motorist's level of cooperation determines if I write a cite or give a warning.

You can complain to a supervisor all you want but the location of the stop is a judgement call by the officer. The average individual might get stopped once or twice in their lifetime, while the average officer makes that many an hour. Who has more training and experience in this field? Think about it for a minute.


On a somewhat related note,

If you are "always getting stopped by the police" as many in this forum claim, figure out what you are doing to draw attention to yourself and adjust your driving habits. I have a friend who drives too fast, has all kinds of modifications on a high performance car, dresses like a thug even though he isn't, plays his music loud enough to destroy his hearing, and can't figure out why he keeps getting stopped. I've tried to tell him, but he doesn't get it. We've been friends for 35 years, but he's a little dense sometimes.

[locosway]

I'm VERY surprised I haven't been stopped in my truck yet. I think a lot of that has to do with my Oregon plates...

[eltee]

Oregon Plates + California DL (can possibly) = Citation via CHP, et al

Heads up for if and when you do get stopped.

Maybe you're just a good driver and don't draw any LEO attention regardless of your plates. We look at the vehicle's actions first, plates later. If you are driving in a manner warranting attention, I don't think having out of state plates makes much difference.

[eltee]

I'm not even sure anymore what we were talking about... Anyway, here is some info on the interceptor. While there are a lot of differences (mostly small) between the normal crown vic and the police model there are some discrepancies from what you said.

The rims aren't special, they're cheap steel rims.

Tires are probably standard H rated or perhaps Z rated on some of the interceptors. I don't think you'll ever see a W rating on a patrol car.

I have yet to see sub-frame connectors welded into a cruiser to stiffen up the chasis. The ride height is not lowered, the suspension is beefed up a bit to handle dips and what not without bottoming out the car during a pursuit.

Steering isn't changed, brakes are just ceramic pads like most new cars.

I actually have a SSP Mustang out front of my house, it's the second one I've restored. The good thing I WILL say about the crown vics are the safety ratings. They're the only production car tested for a 80 mph rear end collision. If I was spending my time on the side of the road, that's the car I'd want to be in.

p.s. Your department may actually upgrade parts on the crown vic, but I find that highly unlikely for numerous reasons.

(emphasis added)

You're right, after 25+ years as a cop and sitting on the panel that negotiated specs and prices with the Ford fleet manager...I am lying.

The "cheap rims" cost more than the LX mags and "H.D. specialty rims" is a Ford description.

The reinforced, stiffened chassis was out of the P71 spec...I never said anything about " ... sub frame connectors..."

The tires were rated for 125+ MPH and were classified as pursuit tires. Sticky but wore out quickly...increased rate of replacement.

Brakes, as spec'd by Ford (not me) were higher performance in stopping and cooling (according to Ford) than the standard Vic or LX

Lock to lock steering ratio was different than a Vic or LX

I don't know about your comment on the 80 MPH rear end rating. I am unfamiliar with that rating. I DO know that for certain model years, rear end collisions were considered by many to be extremely dangerous due to the reported tendancy of the gas tank to rupture.

While a "sports car" might outrun us on a tight, twisty course (as they are designed for) there aren't alot of tight, twisty turns on any freeways around here. Yes, people outrun us all the time, or they just aren't worth putting other motorists at risk so we discontinue. Lose one, catch 3. Every shift, every day you catch a few and lose a few...it's the job.