ADCO firearms Not CA or L/E friendly

[robsolo]

Just a brother from another mother perhaps...

[scootergmc]

Dang guys, just let it go.

The subheading under this forum is "chat, kibitz, and relax." Oh yeah, and it say something about "CIVIL."

Perhaps this should be moved to the off-topic area to fall in line with other LEO threads...

[SVT-40]

Do you have any evidence hat this actually occurs? From what I have seen (theres an example right here on this board), LEOs tend to only sell their off roster guns to other LEOs. In fact, Id be interested to know if anyone can actually prove that an LEO has made a PPT to anyone other than another LEO for any type of frearm.

I belive the "LEOs PPTing off roster guns" is a pure myth.

Just because you "personally" believe it's a myth does not make it so. I have in the last month personally PPT'd a Ruger LCP at the shop I work at between a LEO and a "regular Joe". And Ive talked with other LEO's who have sold their off list handguns to other "joe's"

CavTrooper, do you have to be hit by a brick to know it hurts? Use your head. I'm sure you have some life experience, but to state a belief as a fact is, well ignorant.

Open your eyes guys. The street cops are not your enemy. It's the Chiefs and sheriff's who are to blame. By blaming street cops you are actually falling into a common trap used by many politicians.

It's the "divide and conquer" theory.

The average LEO has no power to change laws. In fact he is prohibited from acting in a political way when on duty. Off duty he can do as he pleases on duty ANY political speach will get him in trouble.

Think of it this way. Are you critical of our service men because of political decisions made by their command authority? I doubt it. Well show LEO's the same respect. You may find you have more support than you know!

Just stop the petty jealousy over high caps, AW's and off list handguns. Life is too good to dwell on these issues. We have more in common than we have differences if you care to take a close look.

[CavTrooper]

If you are referring to me please let me clarify for you. In addition to being a full time 30+ year LEO, I am also an FFL...

This makes sense and I understand your reason.

Can you back this up with any facts? I doubt it. You are quick to jump to Anti-LEO conclusions.

...

Most of us don't agree with the AW ban, HiCap regs, or the approved handgun list. We only have one vote, just like everyone else.

Stop thinking all LEOs are the enemy in the 2A arena, life will be better for everyone.

Its an opinion fella, theres a difference between stating an opinion and stating a fact.

You are the one who stated that you agree with AW registration arent you? So how much of a friend of the 2A could you be?

Once again, WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION FOR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER?

You seem to spend most of your time in this forum attacking and insulting law enforcement officers.

I'm sure a moderator can check the IP addresses or e-mails and verify they are not the same person.

There are other people who share your opinion, but nobody seems to jump to the conclusion that it is one person posing as two.

Usually, in my 30+ years of law enforcement, guilty people are quick to cast suspicion on others to draw it away from their own misconduct.


Ron, not Rob

Quick to get defensive are we? ya know, you could probably do a whole lot better changing my opinion if you were less combatative and were able to demonstrate a little tact.

Im not attacking anyone, Im interacting with LEOs here to see if maybe my perspective has been off and unjustifed, so far, I think Im pretty much spot on.

Now you wanna try and accuse me of being a bad guy? Ok big guy, whos casting suspicions now?

Just because you "personally" believe it's a myth does not make it so. I have in the last month personally PPT'd a Ruger LCP at the shop I work at between a LEO and a "regular Joe". And Ive talked with other LEO's who have sold their off list handguns to other "joe's"

CavTrooper, do you have to be hit by a brick to know it hurts? Use your head. I'm sure you have some life experience, but to state a belief as a fact is, well ignorant.

Open your eyes guys. The street cops are not your enemy. It's the Chiefs and sheriff's who are to blame. By blaming street cops you are actually falling into a common trap used by many politicians.

It's the "divide and conquer" theory.

The average LEO has no power to change laws. In fact he is prohibited from acting in a political way when on duty. Off duty he can do as he pleases on duty ANY political speach will get him in trouble.

Think of it this way. Are you critical of our service men because of political decisions made by their command authority? I doubt it. Well show LEO's the same respect. You may find you have more support than you know!

Just stop the petty jealousy over high caps, AW's and off list handguns. Life is too good to dwell on these issues. We have more in common than we have differences if you care to take a close look.

Whos stating facts? Im stating my opinion.

Actually, I do see street cops as the enemy, They are the footsoldiers out on the front lines, enforcing the unconstitutional laws, violating citizens rights and hiding behind the badge when they get called on it. Ive seen some pretty outrageous statements being made here by the LEOs on this forum, justifying criminal behavior by other LEOs, its disgusting.

LEOs do have the power to effect change, stop supporting the bad laws, period. Every time an anti gun bill comes up, you can guarantee that LE has signed on a supporter, and unless Im mistaken, thats you. Try and equate yourselves with Servicemembers, gimme a break. Servicemembers are required to challenge illegal orders, they are obligated to protect and defend the Constitution, not trample it under the color of authority. A man is just a man and commands no respect because of his position, Ill show LEOs respect, when they earn it, until then they get nothing but contempt from me.

Im sorry guy, but I hold no jealousy for LEOs and their ill gotten rewards for compromising with the the enemies of the Constitution. I dont need to covet what LEOs have, I have mine and intend to keep and defend it.

Its amusing that you would throw that in there, like jealousy has anything to do with it. This about equal treatment under the law and the abuse of power. This is about people who compromise their values and integrity to prop up power grabbing politicians and earn a little kickback for doing so. This is about those who abuse the system and their authority, and as long as the laws have no effect on them, have no inclination to change it.

LEOs are not any more special then any other person on street. Their lives are not inherently more valuable, their jobs are not any more important. Yet in this state, their masters have seen fit to throw them a few more scraps as long as they keep toeing the line and keep the riff-raff in check.

There will come a time when every man is held accountable for his actions, question for you is, do you fear it or welcome it?

[cousinkix1953]

Or maybe he is anti-doublestandard/special privileges.

If that's his message, then I support this dealer completely. Whats next; off-roster handguns, which our corrupt rulers claim are too dangerous for ordinary citizens to own? Why sell the forbidden fruits to anybody, when these laws are based upon LIES?

[Ron-Solo]

This makes sense and I understand your reason.



Its an opinion fella, theres a difference between stating an opinion and stating a fact.

You state your opinions as if they were fact.

You are the one who stated that you agree with AW registration arent you? So how much of a friend of the 2A could you be?

[I]You are mistaken. I do not support the AW registration. My other post stated that there is seldom crime committed with lawfully possessed AWs and machine guns. I was stating the lesser of two evils that the state should at least allow the purchase and registration of AWs to law abiding citizens life most of the country with registered machine guns. Once again, people who go to the effort to obtain a registered MG are not the type to go out an commit crimes. In my opinion, the same should hold true for people that would go thru the efforts to register an AW. The previous AW registrations support this theory. It's not as good as no registration, but it is better than we have now. Until we can change the law, it would be an improvement in my opinion.[/I]

I defend everyone's Constutional rights every day, including ALL of the amendments.




Quick to get defensive are we? ya know, you could probably do a whole lot better changing my opinion if you were less combatative and were able to demonstrate a little tact.

You accuse me of having two log-in identities and then get upset when I defend myself from your attack on my integrity.

Im not attacking anyone, Im interacting with LEOs here to see if maybe my perspective has been off and unjustifed, so far, I think Im pretty much spot on.

[B]Really, your posts don't seem to support that theory.[/B]


Now you wanna try and accuse me of being a bad guy? Ok big guy, whos casting suspicions now?


Whos stating facts? Im stating my opinion.

Actually, I do see street cops as the enemy, They are the footsoldiers out on the front lines, enforcing the unconstitutional laws, violating citizens rights and hiding behind the badge when they get called on it.

Your words, not mine.


Try and equate yourselves with Servicemembers, gimme a break. Servicemembers are required to challenge illegal orders, they are obligated to protect and defend the Constitution, not trample it under the color of authority.

We take the same oath. Unfortunately, there are laws we disagree with, but have been passed by the legislature and upheld by the courts as Constutional. While it may be your opinion that a law is unconstutional, I am required to enforce it until the courts say otherwise. That is different from challenging illegal orders.


A man is just a man and commands no respect because of his position, Ill show LEOs respect, when they earn it, until then they get nothing but contempt from me.

I'm sorry you have such a jaded outlook against law enforcement. I'm slightly familiar with your case and understand why you might feel that way, but if you project that attitude everytime you have a law enforcement contact, any time there is something that is left to the discreation of the officer, you're going to come out on the short end of the stick because of the negative attitude.

Im sorry guy, but I hold no jealousy for LEOs and their ill gotten rewards for compromising with the the enemies of the Constitution. I dont need to covet what LEOs have, I have mine and intend to keep and defend it.

Again, in my opinion, more anti-law enforcement dribble that isn't backed up by fact.


Its amusing that you would throw that in there, like jealousy has anything to do with it. This about equal treatment under the law and the abuse of power. This is about people who compromise their values and integrity to prop up power grabbing politicians and earn a little kickback for doing so. This is about those who abuse the system and their authority, and as long as the laws have no effect on them, have no inclination to change it.

LEOs are not any more special then any other person on street. Their lives are not inherently more valuable, their jobs are not any more important. Yet in this state, their masters have seen fit to throw them a few more scraps as long as they keep toeing the line and keep the riff-raff in check.

Jealousy, sour grapes, whatever you want to call it. Other than my salary, I have never gained personally from any enforcement action I have taken in my 30 year career. Those who abuse the system pay the price. Look at the Sheriff of Orange County. In my opinion, he got what he deserved and ANY other law enforcement officer who does the same thing, should pay the price also.

There will come a time when every man is held accountable for his actions, question for you is, do you fear it or welcome it?

I am held accountable for my actions every day. When the final judgement comes, I will hold my head up high and proud.

A reminder, this is a LAW ENFORCEMENT forum, for Law Enforcement Officers. Your political opinions belong in the political forum, not here. If you want to ask a civil question, without going into your "I hate the cops" and "everything is Unconstutional" viewpoint, I will be happy to answer your question. The 2nd Amendment has been, and will continue to be debated for years. It will change based on rulings of the court. Hopefully it will be for the better.

[CavTrooper]

A reminder, this is a LAW ENFORCEMENT forum, for Law Enforcement Officers. Your political opinions belong in the political forum, not here. If you want to ask a civil question, without going into your "I hate the cops" and "everything is Unconstutional" viewpoint, I will be happy to answer your question..

Until the powers that be deem fit to remove me or my access to this forum, I will continue to ask my questions, and state my viewpoints, even if they make you uncomfortable. This isnt the street, this is the internet, you have no authority here.

The 2nd Amendment has been, and will continue to be debated for years. It will change based on rulings of the court. Hopefully it will be for the better.

So until then, you are "just following orders"?

I'm sorry you have such a jaded outlook against law enforcement.

I dont have a negative view of ALL LE, just most CA LEOs and those outside this state who have no respect for the Constitution and the Citizens of this Country.

I'm slightly familiar with your case and understand why you might feel that way,

WTF are you talking about?!

There is no "case" for you to be familiar with!

Is this some sort of veiled threat or attempt at intimidation?

but if you project that attitude everytime you have a law enforcement contact, any time there is something that is left to the discreation of the officer, you're going to come out on the short end of the stick because of the negative attitude..

I am always civil when I come into contact with LE. I recognize that this individual has been given the power to take away my freedom and take my life with little to no justification. Since I have been disarmed by the politicians and their enforcers, I have no means with which to defend myself, so I must use my words and my mind to enable me to walk away from LE contact with my life and my liberty intact. However, WTF does attitude have to do with anything? Having a bad attitude is not against the law is it? Are you telling me now that having a bad attitude with LE is justification for them to take some sort of action against me regardless of whether I have broken any laws or not? This is the attitude Im talking about. Make no mention of the LAW that LEOs are supposed to be following/enforcing, instead base it all on assumptions and attitude.... and you wonder why some people are suspicious of and distrustful of LE.

[Matt C]

WTF are you talking about?!

There is no "case" for you to be familiar with!

Is this some sort of veiled threat or attempt at intimidation?

I think he might be confusing you with me.

[CavTrooper]

I think he might be confusing you with me.

Dang, Ive never been so insulted!

I kid!

[Jonathan Doe]

Whether someone likes or dislikes LEO or LE agency is their business.

But, if there is a law, and you don't like it...What are you gonna do? Just break the law? I don't want to drive 65MPH, and I don't like the speed law. I like to drive 90+ MPH. A cop gives me a ticket. Are they wrong? Are they suppose not enforce the law in existance?

People elect the politicians. They legislate a law. You don't like it. What do you do? Vote them out? Change something?

I don't like restrictions on firearms. Do I just go buy any guns and parts I want?

I like full auto guns. I don't like NFA and GCA of 1968. Do I just get a automatic weapon anyways? A cop sees you shoot an auto weapon at the range or somewhere. Does he supposed to look the other way?


What can we do about the current law that we don't like? I am here in Miami and looking at some guns that we cannot have in CA. What can I do?

[Ron-Solo]

WTF are you talking about?!

There is no "case" for you to be familiar with!

Is this some sort of veiled threat or attempt at intimidation?



QUOTE]

My mistake, it was another Anti-Law Enforcement individual, Blackwater Ops. My apologies to you on that point.

[Ron-Solo]

Until the powers that be deem fit to remove me or my access to this forum, I will continue to ask my questions, and state my viewpoints, even if they make you uncomfortable. This isnt the street, this is the internet, you have no authority here.

As I said, the rules of this forum state you can ask questions in a CIVIL manner. It is not a forum for you to share your anti-law enforcement viewpoints.


So until then, you are "just following orders"?

No, I follow the law, as intrepreted by the courts, just as the Constution says I must.

I dont have a negative view of ALL LE, just most CA LEOs and those outside this state who have no respect for the Constitution and the Citizens of this Country.

Sorry. In my opinion, your words don't support that.


I am always civil when I come into contact with LE. I recognize that this individual has been given the power to take away my freedom and take my life with little to no justification. Since I have been disarmed by the politicians and their enforcers, I have no means with which to defend myself, so I must use my words and my mind to enable me to walk away from LE contact with my life and my liberty intact. However, WTF does attitude have to do with anything? Having a bad attitude is not against the law is it? Are you telling me now that having a bad attitude with LE is justification for them to take some sort of action against me regardless of whether I have broken any laws or not? This is the attitude Im talking about. Make no mention of the LAW that LEOs are supposed to be following/enforcing, instead base it all on assumptions and attitude.... and you wonder why some people are suspicious of and distrustful of LE.

You just don't get it do you? I said, when you have a negative attitude it can cause the officer to take legal action against you when he has the discreation to warn vs. cite, book for a misdemeanor instead of a felony on a wobbler. Attitude has a LOT to do with those decisions. If you come across as a fool, expect to get treated accordingly. I NEVER said a bad attitude would have them take illegal action against you if you haven't broken any laws.

Ron

[SVT-40]

Actually, I do see street cops as the enemy, They are the footsoldiers out on the front lines, enforcing the unconstitutional laws, violating citizens rights and hiding behind the badge when they get called on it. Ive seen some pretty outrageous statements being made here by the LEOs on this forum, justifying criminal behavior by other LEOs, its disgusting.

LEOs do have the power to effect change, stop supporting the bad laws, period. Every time an anti gun bill comes up, you can guarantee that LE has signed on a supporter, and unless Im mistaken, thats you. Try and equate yourselves with Servicemembers, gimme a break. Servicemembers are required to challenge illegal orders, they are obligated to protect and defend the Constitution, not trample it under the color of authority. A man is just a man and commands no respect because of his position, Ill show LEOs respect, when they earn it, until then they get nothing but contempt from me.

Im sorry guy, but I hold no jealousy for LEOs and their ill gotten rewards for compromising with the the enemies of the Constitution. I dont need to covet what LEOs have, I have mine and intend to keep and defend it.

Its amusing that you would throw that in there, like jealousy has anything to do with it. This about equal treatment under the law and the abuse of power. This is about people who compromise their values and integrity to prop up power grabbing politicians and earn a little kickback for doing so. This is about those who abuse the system and their authority, and as long as the laws have no effect on them, have no inclination to change it.

LEOs are not any more special then any other person on street. Their lives are not inherently more valuable, their jobs are not any more important. Yet in this state, their masters have seen fit to throw them a few more scraps as long as they keep toeing the line and keep the riff-raff in check.

There will come a time when every man is held accountable for his actions, question for you is, do you fear it or welcome it?

Since you see all police as your enemy I suggest your opinion is so tainted as to not be relevant. Seriously ALL police are the enemy? That's a very prejudice view. Yes we are out every day doing our best to enforce the law, some of which we do not necessarily agree with. Most Cops don't regularly violate anyone civil rights. Some do, and when they are caught most are summarily fired. I've never "hidden behind my badge" and was always ready and willing to talk with any one regarding my decisions. I've never seen one single comment from any LEO here justifying any "illegal conduct.

Regarding "bad laws". You must have missed the info in my previous post that Officers are specifically prohibited from acting in any political way when on duty, or to use their employment for political issues. This is strictly prohibited, and will get you disciplined or fired.

If you think rank and file officers don't support most firearms issues, well you are just wrong. Regardless what you "believe", you are wrong.

You fail to realize there is a difference between the rank and file officers and top management. The managers (Chiefs and Sheriff's) are political positions and they use their power to try and influence legislation.

THEY ARE NOT THE RANK AND FILE!

And yes we are like U.S. service men and women. We too are empowered to challenge illegal and unethical orders. We too were sworn to uphold the constitution and enforce the laws of Union and the state. Like service members we DO NOT have the right to challenge orders we do not like, just because we do not like them.

As for you respecting law enforcement, yes you should. Because LEO's are out in the field every day doing the best they can to enforce the laws as currently written in as impartial a way as possible. As for your contempt, well you sound like a very unhappy fellow. It must be rough to travel about your day with such a large chip on your shoulder.

You talk about LEO's getting some kind of "ill gotten rewards"?? That is well just paranoid. LEO's do have allowances in the law regarding High caps, Aw's and off list pistols, But these are not as you say "ill gotten rewards". There was no Quid pro quot. in order to have these variances.

You talk about "equal treatment under the law". Do you think LEO's are the only folks who have "special" treatment?? There are many licensing rules and allowances which treat many people differently because of their position or employment.

Blasters are allowed to have explosives.
Doctors are allowed to prescribe drugs.
Fire personnel are allowed to disobey the vehicle code on runs.
Military are allowed any kind of weaponry.
And so on.

There are literally hundreds of licensing and other allowances in the various code and laws of the federal govt. as well as the states which allow certain people access to one thing or another not allowed to the general citizenry.

Yes, LEO's jobs are more important than some others. This is simply a fact. Because when citizens call for help in any situation 24-7 who do they call?? They call the Police. No one else.

The police come and deal with what ever is going on. They do not have the ability to simply walk away if they are not happy or do not like the people they are dealing with.

As for accountability. I have no problem when the time comes to meet my maker, because I know I always did my best to treat those I came into contact with while I was an LEO with respect and enforced the laws evenly and without prejudiced.

That is more than you can say, as by your own statement you hold ALL of law enforcement in disdain and contempt., and as your enemy.

Fair unprejudiced treatment is what you ask for from LEO's isn't it??

Try practicing what you preach. Your life will be much more rewarding and happy.

[Ron-Solo]

Since you see all police as your enemy I suggest your opinion is so tainted as to not be relevant. Seriously ALL police are the enemy? That's a very prejudice view. Yes we are out every day doing our best to enforce the law, some of which we do not necessarily agree with. Most Cops don't regularly violate anyone civil rights. Some do, and when they are caught most are summarily fired. I've never "hidden behind my badge" and was always ready and willing to talk with any one regarding my decisions. I've never seen one single comment from any LEO here justifying and "illegal conduct.

Regarding "bad laws". You must have missed the info in my previous post that Officers are specifically prohibited from acting in any political way when on duty, or to use their employment for political issues. This is strictly prohibited.

If you think rank and file officers don't support most firearms issues, well you are just wrong. Regardless what you "believe", you are wrong.

You fail to realize there is a difference between the rank and file officers and top management. The managers (Chiefs and Sheriff's) are political positions and they use their power to try and influence legislation.

THEY ARE NOT THE RANK AND FILE!

And yes we are like U.S. service men and women. We too are empowered to challenge illegal and unethical orders. We too were sworn to uphold the constitution and enforce the laws of Union and the state. Like service members we DO NOT have the right to challenge orders we do not like, just because we do not like them.

As for you respecting law enforcement, yes you should. Because LEO's are out in the field every day doing the best they can to enforce the laws as currently written in as impartial a way as possible. As for your contempt, well you sound like a very unhappy fellow. It must be rough to travel about your day with such a large chip on your shoulder.

You talk about LEO's getting some kind of "ill gotten rewards"?? That is well just paranoid. LEO's do have allowances in the law regarding High caps, Aw's and off list pistols, But these are not as you say "ill gotten rewards". There was no Quid pro quot. in order to have these variances.

You talk about "equal treatment under the law". Do you think LEO's are the only folks who have "special" treatment?? There are many licensing rules and allowances which treat many people differently because of their position or employment.

Blasters are allowed to have explosives.
Doctors are allowed to prescribe drugs.
Fire personnel are allowed to disobey the vehicle code on runs.
Military are allowed any kind of weaponry.
And so on.

There are literally hundreds of licensing and other allowances in the various code and laws of the federal govt. as well as the states which allow certain people access to one thing or another not allowed to the general citizenry.

Yes, LEO's jobs are more important than some others. This is simply a fact. Because when citizens call for help in any situation 24-7 who do they call?? They call the Police. No one else.

The police come and deal with what ever is going on. They do not have the ability to simply walk away if they are not happy or do not like the people they are dealing with.

As for accountability. I have no problem when the time comes to meet my maker, because I know I always did my best to treat those I came into contact with while I was an LEO with respect and enforced the laws evenly and without prejudiced.

That is more than you can say, as by your own statement you hold ALL of law enforcement in disdain and contempt., and as your enemy.

Fair unprejudiced treatment is what you ask for from LEO's isn't it??

Try practicing what you preach. Your life will be much more rewarding and happy.

Well stated!

[6172crew]

This is a friendly: knock it off!

Attacking any member in this forum and I will ask that the attacker be sent packing. If you came over to this forum to vent you have come to the wrong place. Again, knock it off!