Dumb patrol rifle question...

[deadcoyote]

We have never had long guns at my current agency. I previously was issued a mini-14 and a bushmaster CAR-15 HBAR way back in the day at another agency.

My Chief now wants to get a long gun, but says AR's are too scary looking. My instant impulse is to purchase mini-14's. Is there another good option out there I'm overlooking?

[RickD427]

The AR-15 is a pretty well tested and versatile weapon platform.

The mini-14 is well tested, but nowhere nearly as versatile as the AR-15.

My former agency initially went to AR-15's, and for the same reasons as you described, they had to be concealed from public view when deployed to patrol units, and deployment from the patrol unit required written memoranda as to the reasons. After doing some internal study as to our use-of-force and shooting trends, we found that deputies failed to employ the AR-15 in several instances where its use was clearly called for. Two reasons for this became apparent: 1) You cannot employ the weapon upon need if it is not deployed in anticipation of that need. and 2) Deputies often failed to deploy the AR-15 when appropriate because they did not wish to author the required memoranda. Quite interestingly, the CHP came to the same conclusion when reviewing the infamous Newhall shooting where officers did not employ their shotguns (which had a seal on the slide that required memoranda if broken).

As a result we changed the AR-15 policy to treat the AR-15 the same as any other weapon, and to allow its deployment and use where appropriate. We found (with one notable exception) that the resulting employments of the AR-15 were tactically sound, and that the use of the weapon reduced the risk to deputies, and members of the public, when compared to the likely outcome of the same engagement being conducted with handguns.

I'm a little concerned that your chief would place aesthetic concerns above the safety of the public and your officers.

Of course its always possible to "soften" the appearance of the AR-15 without compromising officer safety............

[AdiosKali]

If you can get him to the range for a demo day it might change his mind.

[M1NM]

A Mini-14 with a black synthetic stock and 30 round mag won't look that much different to the casual eye than an AR with non collapsing stock and 18"-20" barrel.

[deadcoyote]

I was looking at the Mini packages with the wood stocks and 20 round mags. Seemed fairly "friendly".

[omgwtfbbq]

Hmm.. This is an interesting dilemma. The obvious choice is the AR-15, but if the intent is to have the ability to reach out and touch someone but not have a "military" looking rifle, the M-14 seems like the safe bet.

There's the ARES SCR as well that would allow a little more versatility due to them using standard AR15 upper receiver parts/accessories but they're not proven duty or combat guns in the least.

If it was available in 5.56/.223 I would say the FNAR could also be a candidate but most people probably aren't going to want to carry a full size cartridge gun.

[John M]

I think your best bet is to convince your chief that the AR platform is the overwheling choice for a variety of reason. Look at models that dont have flash suppressors and the bayonet lug. Buy flat top uppers and mount an aimpoint, maybe these small changes will work.. If not, there is always the Win 30-30.

[deadcoyote]

I think your best bet is to convince your chief that the AR platform is the overwheling choice for a variety of reason. Look at models that dont have flash suppressors and the bayonet lug. Buy flat top uppers and mount an aimpoint, maybe these small changes will work.. If not, there is always the Win 30-30.

It's funny you say that, I joked with him I'd prefer a lever gun in a pistol caliber over a shotgun. He did not find the humor in that...

[micro911]

Even French police was using MIni-14. My daughter's unit uses H&K G36.

[AG166]

Why go with a Mini-14 when you can get the big brother of it. Go with the M-1 Garand. Preferably the SOCOM model. I've seen Fish and Wildlife run AR-10's, M1's and AR15's. The M1 isn't as "aggressive/militaristic" looking as those dangerous assault rifles known as those AR's....
Just in case you need to shoot over 100 yards, I think the M1 just might be able to reach out there touch something. Just sayin'

[Bobby Ricigliano]

Why go with a Mini-14 when you can get the big brother of it. Go with the M-1 Garand. Preferably the SOCOM model. I've seen Fish and Wildlife run AR-10's, M1's and AR15's. The M1 isn't as "aggressive/militaristic" looking as those dangerous assault rifles known as those AR's....
Just in case you need to shoot over 100 yards, I think the M1 just might be able to reach out there touch something. Just sayin'

Do you work in law enforcement? Even as an owner of an M1A rifle, I will be the first to admit it would be a poor choice as a standard patrol rifle. Too big, too long, too heavy, and too much round for traditional urban law enforcement.

SWAT team or rural, isolated areas, maybe. Otherwise, NO. And M1 Garand? Are you serious? How about a tactical bandolier of Garand clips?

An AR or a Mini-14 would be much better. Lighter, smaller, handier, with a more controllable round with a lot of good round options, (I.E. Hornady TAP or other VMAX type round.)

[Bobby Ricigliano]

It's funny you say that, I joked with him I'd prefer a lever gun in a pistol caliber over a shotgun. He did not find the humor in that...

There is no humor needed in it. A lever gun in the same caliber as your duty sidearm is a good idea in skilled hands.

Ammo compatibility
Better ballistics
Better accuracy at a distance
Accurate, controlled fire vs the potential for semi-auto spray and pray.

[97F1504RAD]

Here you go show him this, however instead of finding an alternative why not get him past th little scary black rifle phobia.

http://www.aresdefense.com/?page_id=729

[WyattandDoc]

Tell your ignorant Chief that an active shooter in a mall is scarier looking than a well trained First Responder with an M-4.

[AG166]

Do you work in law enforcement? Even as an owner of an M1A rifle, I will be the first to admit it would be a poor choice as a standard patrol rifle. Too big, too long, too heavy, and too much round for traditional urban law enforcement.

SWAT team or rural, isolated areas, maybe. Otherwise, NO. And M1 Garand? Are you serious? How about a tactical bandolier of Garand clips?

An AR or a Mini-14 would be much better. Lighter, smaller, handier, with a more controllable round with a lot of good round options, (I.E. Hornady TAP or other VMAX type round.)

I guess my dry sense of humor didn't come across the way I intended it. Of course a small bore AR would be the most logical and best choice!!! More magazine capacity, great accuracy for what we do in LE, compact, light weight, accessory friendly and the list goes on and on. If my agency would let us carry an AR, I'd have one. I'm issued a Mini-14 and it does good. It's not my first choice but I have to do my job with what I have.