Military Pay

[Tom Slick]

when i was in you didnt get all that
if you were single, you could not live 'off-base' (not my base anyways) and thus did not qualify for any of those 'other' allowances, so, we were stuck at base pay, my MOS, promotion points went below 998 maybe once a year, our MOS had lots and lots of E-4's, third term E-4 was quite common (lock-down MOS, no re-up to another MOS)
I remember as an E-1, i signed up for the $100 savings bond, and the GI bill was taken out each month, I ended up getting less than 500 bucks a paycheck, at E-4, it seems i was getting under 2k/month, 1600 rings a bell, then my war pay was 110 i think.
My daughter is Navy, and she gets paid a certain amount for having a room-mate. even so, she doesnt get much in my opinion, I think Service members deserve more, and I would absolutely be willing to pay a specific tax if it went directly to accommodate a pay rate increase to soldiers.

When I got out of active duty as an E-4, over 3, I made $24k/yr. Single E-3 and above had the option to live off base because of a housing shortage. I made over $65k/year as a "title 32" activated national guardsmen before I got out at 10 years. But we can't really consider that when we are looking at what current service members are paid.
If I were still active duty I'd make about $78k/yr as an E-6. In fact the civilian equivalent job to my old AFSC pays WG-10/11 wages which is about $27/hr, $4320/mo, $51,840. That's E-5 territory.

Also keep in mind that if you retire at 40 as an E-6 you'll receive about $2k/mo, $24k/yr for the rest of your life.

[steelrain82]

Most peoPle don't make it to nco ranks though... Well I guess it also depends on your mos and branch. But in the grunts a good majority got out as lcpl's. I know I was supposed to pick up but my mos was locked out. So your standard American service member who does the majority of the work gets slightly over min. wage and gets no overtime. And living conditions generally suck. Stateside or overseas.

Oh yeah, we also help pay for our own salaries through our taxes.

[Tripper]

50k/year for E-5 aint that bad, i dont suppose,
looks like theres been a few COLA's since i left.

I dont even know what my daughter makes as E-4 Navy, just that she gets paid for having a roommate, cuz it takes away from her allotted square footage of living space or something, living in the barracks at that. I know what they'd have told me had I requested that. I'd have been deployed 12 months out of the year instead off 11.5

[anthonyca]

when i was in you didnt get all that
if you were single, you could not live 'off-base' (not my base anyways) and thus did not qualify for any of those 'other' allowances, so, we were stuck at base pay, my MOS, promotion points went below 998 maybe once a year, our MOS had lots and lots of E-4's, third term E-4 was quite common (lock-down MOS, no re-up to another MOS)
I remember as an E-1, i signed up for the $100 savings bond, and the GI bill was taken out each month, I ended up getting less than 500 bucks a paycheck, at E-4, it seems i was getting under 2k/month, 1600 rings a bell, then my war pay was 110 i think.
My daughter is Navy, and she gets paid a certain amount for having a room-mate. even so, she doesnt get much in my opinion, I think Service members deserve more, and I would absolutely be willing to pay a specific tax if it went directly to accommodate a pay rate increase to soldiers.

This^. When I was in, in the 90s, early 2000s, single soldiers lived on post and only NCOs got their own room for the most part. I must be a greedy $&"@ because I thought the pay was a joke. I still saved almost all of my paycheck though.

[Tom Slick]

How many of us got out after 4 years and made more money in the next year than we were paid while we were in?

An E-4, over 3, would have to work 80hrs/wk to make his base pay at minimum wage.

An E-1 would have to work 57hrs/wk to make his base pay at minimum wage.

Don't forget most jobs wont ever give you 30 days/yr paid vacation.

[anthonyca]

How many of us got out after 4 years and made more money in the next year than we were paid while we were in?

An E-4, over 3, would have to work 80hrs/wk to make his base pay at minimum wage.

An E-1 would have to work 57hrs/wk to make his base pay at minimum wage.

I had a good MOS, air conditioning, and am an evil union worker, so there is no way I would ever make as much in the military as I do now. I'd have to be a general. Money is not the reason I joined.

[45DAVID1]

Interesting. I'm deploying out there next week. With BAH, hardship duty pay, combat pay, family sep pay and anything else I get I figured I will make more in 6 months than I would make in a whole year after taxes at my current job. Heck, I may even try and extend out there because the money is good!

[6114DAVE]

Are you California tax exempt if you're a reservist or is it only for active duty

[6114DAVE]

Interesting. I'm deploying out there next week. With BAH, hardship duty pay, combat pay, family sep pay and anything else I get I figured I will make more in 6 months than I would make in a whole year after taxes at my current job. Heck, I may even try and extend out there because the money is good!

452nd AMW?

[FourLoko]

At my oldest age thus far (everyday lol) I'm working as an EMT making pathetic money with no breaks for 10 hours a day.

I guess hanging out in the desert all day isn't pretty either but people still join for some reason. I'm still contemplating it. Do all the branches have an MOS related to fire fighting?

[Mr Blu]

I think there is a point that everyone is missing.

Isn't necessarily the difference in pay between a military job and a civilian equivalent, it's the difference of the danger in those environments. And those can't be compared. The closest, would be a DEA agent chasing after a drug cartel in some action flick.

It is circular logic and nearly impossible, to properly compare a soldier doing their job overseas, to a civilian doing something similar in the States. This is a very old, and very stale argument.

Yes, soldiers do get several things "covered". Clothing, housing, equipment, etc. But what's different??? Not just the job, but that jobs environment. Dangerous or not, it's 24/7 for many soldiers. And all of them can be called out of bed at ANY time, for ANY or no reason. At 0230hrs for emergency test muster, or in the middle of a hot date to go wheels up in 3 hours into Afghanistan.

You are also not some random employee, you are 100% USDA approved Government Meat, owned by Uncle Sam for X amount of years. You are required, BY LAW, to follow the orders given to you by your superiors. PERIOD. Disobeying a direct order, which is an Article 9 of the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice), which can lead to an Article 15. Both have the chance of removing rank, revoking pay, and possible jail time. ALL for not doing what you were told.

You can quit a job, because you have rights as a civilian. But as a soldier you can't, and you don't. You have that branches regulations and the UCMJ.

It's all of those differences that I just mentioned, that make a lot of people say that our service members aren't paid enough.

[Tom Slick]

I think there is a point that everyone is missing.

Isn't necessarily the difference in pay between a military job and a civilian equivalent, it's the difference of the danger in those environments. And those can't be compared. The closest, would be a DEA agent chasing after a drug cartel in some action flick.

It is circular logic and nearly impossible, to properly compare a soldier doing their job overseas, to a civilian doing something similar in the States. This is a very old, and very stale argument.

Yes, soldiers do get several things "covered". Clothing, housing, equipment, etc. But what's different??? Not just the job, but that jobs environment. Dangerous or not, it's 24/7 for many soldiers. And all of them can be called out of bed at ANY time, for ANY or no reason. At 0230hrs for emergency test muster, or in the middle of a hot date to go wheels up in 3 hours into Afghanistan.

You are also not some random employee, you are 100% USDA approved Government Meat, owned by Uncle Sam for X amount of years. You are required, BY LAW, to follow the orders given to you by your superiors. PERIOD. Disobeying a direct order, which is an Article 9 of the UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice), which can lead to an Article 15. Both have the chance of removing rank, revoking pay, and possible jail time. ALL for not doing what you were told.

You can quit a job, because you have rights as a civilian. But as a soldier you can't, and you don't. You have that branches regulations and the UCMJ.

It's all of those differences that I just mentioned, that make a lot of people say that our service members aren't paid enough.

Have you had skirmishes with the UCMJ?

I agree with you but the majority of jobs in the military are non-combat and they all pay the same. Vehicle/aircraft/armament Maintenance, civil engineering, computers, intelligence, communications, plumbers, electricians... It's not difficult to spend a career in the military and not live the hard life.
As long as new folks sign up and NCOs reenlist they are paying enough.

[steelrain82]

He also forgot restriction. And what if you are in the navy on a ship and have to hotbunk it while at sea. Or even a Marine on float. Plus you are subject to field day every Thursday, and inspection on Friday and standing by to go on libo. The latest I ever had to wait was on a Friday well it became Saturday at around 11 at night. We had a company working party that was done by 5 and had to stand in formation then out of formation and back in formation until than. So your liberty is at the whim of your unit commander. And if they are single they definitely will **** with you.

[i_saw_americans_fighting]

I'll toss some numbers out from the military pay chart:

E-1 base pay:
$1491/mo which is $17892/yr. That would be $9.32/hr, 40 hrs a week. Food and Rent are paid for so that's worth another $350/mo which makes a "civilian equivalent" to $22,092/yr or $11.50/hr at a 40hr/wk job.
That's good pay for a non-skilled 18-20yo kid who's getting paid while in training. That same kid living around here and working as a "shop helper" learning the metal fabrication/welding trade makes $9.00/hr and pays his own food/rent.

E-4, over 3, and single, living off base, stationed CONUS:
The "average" first termer that's ready to get out.
Base pay: $2150/mo (taxable)
Housing Allowance: $1011/mo (non taxable)
Food Allowance: $325/mo (non taxable)
That's a total of $3486/mo, $41,832 military pay.
The civilian equivalent pay would add tax (30%) to the allowances. That's $3887/mo, $46,641/yr, or $24/hr at a 40hr/wk job
For reference that's starting salary range for a recent college graduate of the same age.

They're not overpaid, but they are earning a good living.

One thing I was amazed at when I was in was financial irresponsibility. I understand broke first termers but broke/bankrupt NCO's were disturbing.

There's a couple things everyone keeps forgetting. If you're a single soldier living in the barracks, you don't get housing allowance. Additionally, you get charged on a monthly basis for food, whether you eat at the DFAC or not. A single soldier living off post, AND receiving BAH is rare... unless you're a senior NCO or an officer. If you're married like me, I think we get compensated very well. I don't pay taxes to Cali because I'm not stationed there. I didn't start getting taxed until after my after third year in the army, because they only tax wages. So up until then, having a family of 4, we were considered below the poverty line. We had a series major car troubles that put us into a corner, but thanks to this deployment we have nothing but a car payment (debt wise), and that's from only being here for 6 months so far. Anyways, the only problem I have is with how the army treats single soldiers.

[kermit315]

50k/year for E-5 aint that bad, i dont suppose,
looks like theres been a few COLA's since i left.

I dont even know what my daughter makes as E-4 Navy, just that she gets paid for having a roommate, cuz it takes away from her allotted square footage of living space or something, living in the barracks at that. I know what they'd have told me had I requested that. I'd have been deployed 12 months out of the year instead off 11.5

I would like to hear more about your daughters situation....because to my knowledge, there is no pay for having a room mate in the barracks, and we stack them three deep down here.

Considering all the benefits and free crap I get, I don't think I'm underpaid. Compared to a guy who makes twice my salary on the outside, most of my income does not end up going to necessities. Anybody who claims they aren't making enough to live on in the military is a poor money manager. It's 2011 and we get paid rather handsomely along with nice job security. The only issue I think is who gets bonus pays (combat arms don't get enough and some people shouldn't be getting hazard pay where they are) and how much of a wage gap there is between enlisted and officers.

As far as I could remember deployment was not bad at all. I got paid beaucoup bucks for doing my job, eating at a DFAC I didn't have to pay for (for once!), and working out. Some parts were stressful, but not at all that bad. Heck I was safer there than I was back in Sacramento because at least I was armed and had backup everywhere I went. Oh and nothing was taxed. And back here in garrison nothing at the PX is taxed. It's a nice perk.

As someone whose salary is payed solely by the taxes generated by the other citizens of his country I believe they have utmost rights to scrutinize how much we get paid. Any public sector service job should be held to the same regard. It makes me laugh when some soldier acts like they have it hard when they make life hard for themselves. "Oh noes I've got a huge family I've got to care for and car payments to make I need moar moniez!" Too bad, you get paid like everybody else at your grade (generally speaking). Families get tons of money extra and free health benefits. And you'll never see a higher percentage of people driving nice, brand new cars than on a military base.

Sometimes you have to go without food, sleep exposed without shelter in the cold on an airfield waiting days for a ride across the country that should have come a long time ago, get rockets shot at you, and spend half a year (or more) without seeing family. But hey, that came with the job description when I signed up.

Job security is a thing of the past, just ask the three thousand Sailors that are having their contracts terminated as of 30JUN12 and being told to go home.