Question on Rossi Circuit Judge

[Barnswallow 454]

Hey Everyone,

I've been doing some research on the Rossi Circuit Judge. From everything I've found through posts here and some research, the gun is legal due to the fact it has a rifled barrel, and the barrel is over 18". This is one of the sources that talks about that: http://www.calgunlaws.com/wp-content...California.pdf .

However, finding one of these guns in California seems to be quite tricky. I've been considering buying one on Gunbroker. However, I realized one possible tiny issue. The ones sold on Gunbroker come with a smooth bore choke. Would owning a smooth bore choke be an issue? Hope you guys can help!

[Quiet]

Under CA laws/regulations...

If the firearm has a rifled barrel and a shoulder stock, then it is considered a "rifle". [PC 17090]

If the firearm can discharge shotgun shells and has a barrel length of less than 18", then it is considered a "short barreled shotgun. [PC 17180(a)]

If the firearm can discharge shotgun shells and has a smoothbore barrel and a shoulder stock, then it is considered a "shotgun". [PC 17190]

If the "shotgun" utilizes a revolving cylinder, then it is an "assault weapon". [PC 30515(a)(8)]


Therefore...

In order to be CA legal, if firearm can discharge shotgun shells and utilizes a revolving cylinder, then it must have a 18" or greater length rifled barrel.


Summary:
A. Firearm that can discharge shotgun shells + less than 18" barrel length = illegal SBS [PC 17180(a)].
B. Firearm that can discharge shotgun shells + shoulder stock + 18" or greater length smoothbore barrel + revolving cylinder = illegal assault weapon [PC 30515(a)(8)].
C. Firearm that can discharge shotgun shells + shoulder stock + 18" or greater length rifled barrel length + revolving cylinder = legal rifle.



Penal Code 17090
As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16650, 16660, 16870, and 17170, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, subdivision (f) of Section 27555, Article 2 (commencing with Section 30300) of Chapter 1 of Division 10 of Title 4, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Penal Code 17190
As used in Sections 16530, 16640, 16870, and 17180, Sections 17720 to 17730, inclusive, Section 17740, Section 30215, and Article 1 (commencing with Section 33210) of Chapter 8 of Division 10 of Title 4, “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.

Penal Code 17180
As used in this part, “short-barreled shotgun” means any of the following:
(a) A firearm that is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and has a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(b) A firearm that has an overall length of less than 26 inches and that is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(c) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

[Barnswallow 454]

Okay then,

So the Rossi Circuit Judge .45/.410 is legal generally. However, from what you posted it seems like the choke could fall under Penal Code 17190. Seeing as the ones on Gunbroker are sold with that included, it looks like it could be a problem.

[P5Ret]

From what I understand the circuit judge comes with a rifled choke, and a thread protector sleeve for use with slugs and 45-70 rounds. The barrel is rifled but is threaded for choke tubes. Now how the thread protector would be interpreted is anyone's guess.

[morrcarr67]

Okay then,

So the Rossi Circuit Judge .45/.410 is legal generally. However, from what you posted it seems like the choke could fall under Penal Code 17190. Seeing as the ones on Gunbroker are sold with that included, it looks like it could be a problem.

From what I understand the circuit judge comes with a rifled choke, and a thread protector sleeve for use with slugs and 45-70 rounds. The barrel is rifled but is threaded for choke tubes. Now how the thread protector would be interpreted is anyone's guess.

The problem I see; are I could be over thinking it, is that you're not supposed to use the rifled choke with the 45LC or 410 Slugs.

So, with the smooth bore choke you only a ~17" rifled barrel even though the whole barrel is 18.5". Which could cause it to fall under the AW laws regarding a firearm with a revolving cylinder capable of firing a fixed shot shell with a barrel less than 18".



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[SkyHawk]

The barrel is 18.5". IMO it does not matter if the rifling extends all the way. It can be counterbored or whatever. If it uses a smooth bore choke or a rifled choke matters not. It could be a 14" rifled barrel with a 4.5" brake pinned and welded. Plenty of ARs running around with 14.5" barrels and 1.6" brake or flash hider pinned and welded. I don't see how this is any different

If there is any rifling at all, it is a rifled barrel. Anything smooth bore beyond the rifling doesn't change that.

[pacrat]

The barrel is 18.5". IMO it does not matter if the rifling extends all the way. It can be counterbored or whatever. If it uses a smooth bore choke or a rifled choke matters not. It could be a 14" rifled barrel with a 4.5" brake pinned and welded. Plenty of ARs running around with 14.5" barrels and 1.6" brake or flash hider pinned and welded. I don't see how this is any different

If there is any rifling at all, it is a rifled barrel. Anything smooth bore beyond the rifling doesn't change that.

^^^ CORRECT ^^^

18" barrel for shotgun is "overall" length. Just like a rifle is 16".

My 14" TC Contender barrel, has a 2 1/8" sleeve silver soldered onto it. Making it legal to use with the rifle butt stock. But illegal to use with the pistol grip.

[morrcarr67]

The barrel is 18.5". IMO it does not matter if the rifling extends all the way. It can be counterbored or whatever. If it uses a smooth bore choke or a rifled choke matters not. It could be a 14" rifled barrel with a 4.5" brake pinned and welded. Plenty of ARs running around with 14.5" barrels and 1.6" brake or flash hider pinned and welded. I don't see how this is any different

If there is any rifling at all, it is a rifled barrel. Anything smooth bore beyond the rifling doesn't change that.

That's true. I hadn't thought about it that way.

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[lastinline]

My 14" TC Contender barrel, has a 2 1/8" sleeve silver soldered onto it. Making it legal to use with the rifle butt stock. But illegal to use with the pistol grip.

[pacrat]

Hopefully not, for sure. Realistically, unless it is a specific genre of firearms that a person is familiar with the regs on. It is unrealistic the hope that whether an average citizen, or a LEO tasked with enforcing the plethora a CRAP LAWS. That get spit out of Sac O Crapmento annually.

Extremely difficult for anyone to keep track of.

[sevendayweekend]

[SkyHawk]

How does this shotgun have a “revolving cylinder” and stay out of AW territory?

It has a rifled barrel 18"+. See post #2

[sevendayweekend]

^^^^^
Thanks, not sure how I missed that part

[JagerDog]

I got one early in their existence. Then, different LGS's had different conclusions. IIRC Michel & Associates gave it their blessing.

FWIW, the choke isn't twist rifled. It's straight rifled, designed to stop the wad from spinning.

I'll say it's shotgun pattern isn't very good. I wouldn't shoot a bunny at more than 15-20 yards. Does pretty well with large buckshot. Somewhat respectable with 45 Colt. I have some slugs, but never shot them.