Shipping Ammunition

[Clarence]

Shipping ammunition is a fairly straightforward process: pack securely, slap an ORM-D label on the box and ship via FedEx or UPS.

A question arises when it comes to shipping to localities that restrict ammunition sales. My approach has been to say "look, you know your laws, I don't. If you can't have ammo shipped to you, don't break the law".

The question is this: what exactly could, say, cali do to a person who ships ammo into the state?

Now, an FFL, I believe, is obligated to observe state laws so, presumably, ATF could go after an FFL that ships (I am betting that the powers that be like Federal Law when it suits them) to cali. But what about a non-FFL? Does Jerry Brown make mean faces at you? What can they do?

I suspect that the answer is "not very much". This is more out of curiosity than anything else.

ETA: The question isn't just about regular ammo. The US is a hodgepodge of laws and rules concerning things like Dragon's Breath, Flechette rounds, bolo rounds and so on.

[TruOil]

By shipping ammunition into the state, you are deemed to be "doing business" in the state, and thus have sufficient "minimum contacts" to subject you to the criminal law of the state. As was the case for several manufacturers of parts kits that made illegal magazines who were prosecuted by the SF DA.

[Clarence]

Interesting. I don't see anything after March.
This wasn't criminal from what I can see, it was a civil suit.
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, develops.

[P5Ret]

By shipping ammunition into the state, you are deemed to be "doing business" in the state, and thus have sufficient "minimum contacts" to subject you to the criminal law of the state. As was the case for several manufacturers of parts kits that made illegal magazines who were prosecuted by the SF DA.

Not quite. They were sued by the city attorney, there were no criminal charges filed. Here's a link to one of the many article's on it.

http://www.guns.com/2013/06/11/san-francisco-city-attorney-sues-suppliers-of-high-capacity-magazine-repair-kits/

Now in regard to a state law the attorney general could also file a lawsuit on behalf of the people. He could possibly file criminal charge's but the chance of winning an extradition hearing would probably not be good.

[SkyHawk]

Interesting. I don't see anything after March.
This wasn't criminal from what I can see, it was a civil suit.
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, develops.

Well, what happened to the last batch who got sued was, they paid $$$ and agreed to stop shipping.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=13011144&postcount=1

Copes Distributing, Inc. (“Copes”) and 44Mag Distributing, LLC (“44Mag”) have entered into a settlement agreement with the San Francisco District Attorney’s office that effectively terminates the litigation for these parties.

The companies admitted no wrongdoing under the settlement agreement, and Copes and 44Mag steadfastly maintain that they have at all times operated in compliance with all state and local laws. Neither company will be required to disclose customer information to the City under the agreement, nor was any customer information disclosed during the course of the litigation.

The companies stipulated to settle the case for $15,000 and an agreement to discontinue sales of the body of any magazine capable of holding more than ten rounds to California customers. The companies also agreed to send a letter to San Francisco and Sunnyvale customers advising them of those cities’ recently enacted magazines possession bans.

Likely the same will develop for the latest batch. Attorneys fees, fines - good times.

[Clarence]

The simplest solution for a company is to simply not sell anything in cali. The point is that any municipality can pass anything and it is simply not possible for a company to keep up with every law/rule/ordinance that might be passed.

Pretty damn sad for the folks there but, in the case of the latest round of restrictions, I understand that it was the result of a referendum. Not much you can do about that.

ETA: That is probably the strategy, make it too much of a pain in the *** to deal with cali.

[glocksigtastic]

It'd be nice if FFL's would give us lower prices since their online competitors are now completely shutdown. We shall see. Maybe petition major gun store owners via CalGuns Admins to make this happen, who knows...

The simplest solution for a company is to simply not sell anything in cali. The point is that any municipality can pass anything and it is simply not possible for a company to keep up with every law/rule/ordinance that might be passed.

Pretty damn sad for the folks there but, in the case of the latest round of restrictions, I understand that it was the result of a referendum. Not much you can do about that.

ETA: That is probably the strategy, make it too much of a pain in the *** to deal with cali.

[BigFatGuy]

Call me crazy, but if a judge issues a warrant for your arrest, even if it's only good within the bounds of the state of CA, doesn't that make you "a fugitive from justice" for purposes of a 4473/NICS check?