80% lowers MERGED THREADS - please ask in here, not a new thread

[onefastdoc]

Use a date well in the future so they can't use it as proof of you already having committed a crime.

Do you realize that you can't assemble your USNA reciever into a semi-auto?

That's tough to do because the DOJ is taking so long to process USNA applications. I had applied for a USNA in August and put down a date in October as the build date, and I still haven't received a serial number. I talked to the DOJ yesterday and they said "we are behind, so it will take a while." I asked how long, like another month, or two or 6. Their answer was "we have no idea how long."

[CMSGTHOKAGE]

Hey this is a long shot, but my sister (TX resident) might move back to CA for work and I know her off roster handguns are gtg but she does have a G19 p80 build and was wondering if it would be legal to bring back with her?

I am thinking it is legal since it is basically the same as an off roster gun,but how would she go about registering it?

[ar15barrels]

Hey this is a long shot, but my sister (TX resident) might move back to CA for work and I know her off roster handguns are gtg but she does have a G19 p80 build and was wondering if it would be legal to bring back with her?

I am thinking it is legal since it is basically the same as an off roster gun,but how would she go about registering it?

Sure.
She just needs to engrave it with her name, city, state and a serial number.
Vol-reg it when she moves into the state.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/volreg.pdf

The state MAY want her to do a USNA on it if they won't accept the vol reg.

[CMSGTHOKAGE]

Sure.
She just needs to engrave it with her name, city, state and a serial number.
Vol-reg it when she moves into the state.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/volreg.pdf

The state MAY want her to do a USNA on it if they won't accept the vol reg.

Dope! Can she just make up any random serial number? Or does it have to be X amount of characters?

[ar15barrels]

Dope! Can she just make up any random serial number? Or does it have to be X amount of characters?

Serial number needs to end in a number.
Besides that, it can be letters or numbers, however you like.

[????? ????]

80% lowers MERGED THREADS - please ask in here, not a new thread

Sure.
She just needs to engrave it with her name, city, state and a serial number.
Vol-reg it when she moves into the state.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/volreg.pdf

The state MAY want her to do a USNA on it if they won't accept the vol reg.

It has to be a USNA meaning a DOJ-assigned serial number for a bee resident. It cannot be a VOLREG which ended as an option for California residents on July 1, 2018.

Penal Code section 29180, subdivision (e) says:

(e) A new resident to the state shall apply for a unique serial number or other mark of identification pursuant to Section 29182 within 60 days of arrival for any firearm the resident wishes to possess in the state that the resident previously manufactured or assembled or a firearm the resident owns, that does not have a unique serial number or other mark of identification.

According to California Code of Regulations, Title 11, section 5507:
Since the USNA process is involved, it is arguable that the engraving of the serial number must be on 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel embedded in the polymer frame, though a strict reading of the statute and regulations could be argued otherwise.

[Tezzmeret]

First time builder, waiting on my serial number, has anyone recently applied for their serial number here from the USNA application? If so how long did it take for you to get it? Also, I set my manufacture date for Feb 1st, if they don't have the serial number yet, I understand to not build the receiver and the rest of the firearm yet, but would they be something used against me in any way? Would appreciate any info on this.

[bigstick61]

Hopefully an answer will be forthcoming, as it can take forever for people to respond in stickied merged threads like this one, but I have some questions about markings.

Does DOJ have some kind of document providing guidance on markings? I know I can get all sorts of stuff with info to meet ATF requirements for NFA markings for individuals, but a search didn't produce much of anything for CA DOJ for 80% receivers, and doing Calguns-specific searches didn't provide the info I was looking for, either.

The two main things I'm wondering about are how the markings are to be done for manufacturer name and location and the location of the required markings, both on guns already marked and completed before 7-1-18, and for anything to be made in the future.

More specifically, does CA DOJ allow for use of recognized abbreviations for personal names and place names like the ATF does? I know recognized abbreviations for the State are permitted, but that's all I could find out about. A number of forenames have recognized abbreviations, including English, Spanish, and other such names. Sometimes the forename is substituted with an initial. Much less common, but not unheard of, are such abbreviations for surnames. Entities, like trusts, can also have abbreviated names, up to just using initials. Also, there are recognized abbreviations for city names, including pretty much every city in California.

For examples, a John Smith in Twenty-Nine Palms, California, might use J. SMITH 29P CA for the marking, and this can satisfy the ATF requirement. Or the Smith Family Trust in San Dimas, California might use SFT SDMS CA and meet the requirement. For real-life examples, the AR-10s converted to auto (and transferrable) by Charlie Erb are marked C. Erb (he does spell out the city name, but uses the abbreviation for Pennsylvania). I've also seen SBRs and such done by individuals marked similarly, or using a longer abbreviation for the forename (such as Thos. instead of Thomas). For a real-life example using an entity, in this case an FFL, Cole Distributing, Incorporated in Scottsville, Kentucky would apply the marking CDI SCTVL KY for guns they imported.

Do these markings satisfy DOJ requirements, or are they prohibited? Is there any guidance to what specifically is allowed or not in this regard? If a pre-7-1-18 gun is marked this way, does it need to be redone if the answer to the first question is "no"?

My other questions regard placement in two aspects. One has to do with whether or not there is a requirement for all of the required markings to be located together. For example, if I had a pre-7-1-18 80% with markings resembling the roll-marks of a Colt GAU-5A/A that included a serial number, model, and caliber, can those markings be used to satisfy the requirements for the serial, caliber, and model (if applied), with the manufacturer and city/state markings placed by themselves elsewhere on the gun, or do the former have to be repeated with the latter? Separately, on a gun without such replica markings (or even with them, I suppose, if the markings are repeated separately), can the required information be divided between two places on the receiver, whether visible simultaneously, or not?

Finally, can certain discrete marking locations be used? ATF provides some guidance on visibility/conspicuousness, but I'm not sure such exists for CA DOJ. Can the markings me on the inner flare flats of an AR-15 magazine well (markings there can be seen with or without a magazine inserted)? Can they be on the flats on the bottom of the magazine well (1/16" letters will definitely fit there). Can they be placed on the bottom surface above the trigger guard? How about on the flats on the top of the receiver obscured by the upper when assembled (I know this one is questionable for Federal purposes and I suspect is a "no" for CA, but I'm still curious)? On the part of the lower obscured by the ejection port cover when open (this one is Federally allowed for sure)?

If markings were placed like this on a pre-7-1-18 receiver, do they need to be redone?

Also, if any markings need to be redone, does one have to go through the process for new receivers, or can it simply be done?

Examples below to help visualize to what I'm referring:













And an example of a gun with replica markings that might appear, with the actual manufacturer/location markings elsewhere (someone on ARFCOM's build using an 80% marked to look like a GAU-5A/A):

[ar15barrels]

Does DOJ have some kind of document providing guidance on markings? I know I can get all sorts of stuff with info to meet ATF requirements for NFA markings for individuals, but a search didn't produce much of anything for CA DOJ for 80% receivers, and doing Calguns-specific searches didn't provide the info I was looking for, either.

The two main things I'm wondering about are how the markings are to be done for manufacturer name and location and the location of the required markings, both on guns already marked and completed before 7-1-18, and for anything to be made in the future.

More specifically, does CA DOJ allow for use of recognized abbreviations for personal names and place names like the ATF does? I know recognized abbreviations for the State are permitted, but that's all I could find out about. A number of forenames have recognized abbreviations, including English, Spanish, and other such names. Sometimes the forename is substituted with an initial. Much less common, but not unheard of, are such abbreviations for surnames. Entities, like trusts, can also have abbreviated names, up to just using initials. Also, there are recognized abbreviations for city names, including pretty much every city in California.

For examples, a John Smith in Twenty-Nine Palms, California, might use J. SMITH 29P CA for the marking, and this can satisfy the ATF requirement. Or the Smith Family Trust in San Dimas, California might use SFT SDMS CA and meet the requirement. For real-life examples, the AR-10s converted to auto (and transferrable) by Charlie Erb are marked C. Erb (he does spell out the city name, but uses the abbreviation for Pennsylvania). I've also seen SBRs and such done by individuals marked similarly, or using a longer abbreviation for the forename (such as Thos. instead of Thomas). For a real-life example using an entity, in this case an FFL, Cole Distributing, Incorporated in Scottsville, Kentucky would apply the marking CDI SCTVL KY for guns they imported.

Do these markings satisfy DOJ requirements, or are they prohibited? Is there any guidance to what specifically is allowed or not in this regard? If a pre-7-1-18 gun is marked this way, does it need to be redone if the answer to the first question is "no"?

My other questions regard placement in two aspects. One has to do with whether or not there is a requirement for all of the required markings to be located together. For example, if I had a pre-7-1-18 80% with markings resembling the roll-marks of a Colt GAU-5A/A that included a serial number, model, and caliber, can those markings be used to satisfy the requirements for the serial, caliber, and model (if applied), with the manufacturer and city/state markings placed by themselves elsewhere on the gun, or do the former have to be repeated with the latter? Separately, on a gun without such replica markings (or even with them, I suppose, if the markings are repeated separately), can the required information be divided between two places on the receiver, whether visible simultaneously, or not?

Finally, can certain discrete marking locations be used? ATF provides some guidance on visibility/conspicuousness, but I'm not sure such exists for CA DOJ. Can the markings me on the inner flare flats of an AR-15 magazine well (markings there can be seen with or without a magazine inserted)? Can they be on the flats on the bottom of the magazine well (1/16" letters will definitely fit there). Can they be placed on the bottom surface above the trigger guard? How about on the flats on the top of the receiver obscured by the upper when assembled (I know this one is questionable for Federal purposes and I suspect is a "no" for CA, but I'm still curious)? On the part of the lower obscured by the ejection port cover when open (this one is Federally allowed for sure)?

If markings were placed like this on a pre-7-1-18 receiver, do they need to be redone?

Also, if any markings need to be redone, does one have to go through the process for new receivers, or can it simply be done?

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/regs/usna-text-of-adopt-regs.pdf

Page 12.

Earlier in the document, visibility and conspicuousness are also addressed.

[bigstick61]

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...adopt-regs.pdf

Page 12.

Earlier in the document, visibility and conspicuousness are also addressed.

The same definition for conspicuousness is used as for the Feds (which would imply that the locations pictured above would be GTG), but it is possible DOJ interprets that definition differently. Hard to say.

Looks like the document contradicts itself somewhat. In one place, it says that the information other than the serial number can be placed on the barrel, not just the receiver or frame. In another, it says that information must be on the receiver or frame.

It wants a photo encompassing the entire serial number and the additional information, which implies that they must be together, even though there is no actual requirement I could find in there requiring the same (and implication elsewhere that they might be separate, such as by permitting the markings on the barrel, while the serial number must be on the receiver or frame). Creates some ambiguity.

It says the manufacturer's first and last name (if applicable; I assume this would potentially not apply if manufactured by a trust or something like that), and says nothing about recognized abbreviations thereof, while mentioning such abbreviations for another piece of information that must be engraved, so I presume that it must be the first and last name in full, but this does not seem certain.

The recognized abbreviations part for location is unclear whether it only means the recognized abbreviations for the state may be used, or if such can be used for both city and state. The language could be interpreted either way.

It also does not seem like the depth and height requirements apply to the "other information", kind of like with NFA engravings, as I recall, but this also seems unclear due to other wording elsewhere in the document.

Sounds like if you didn't VolReg before 7-1-18, any serial applied is not considered adequate and you must get a new one, by a deadline that has already passed, but this seems unclear to me. It doesn't sound like the other markings matter, necessarily, as long as it had a serial or other identifying markings that were reported.

I suppose I shouldn't have expected a Cal DOJ guidance document to be of sufficient value. Doesn't clarify everything, leaves some things potentially open to interpretation, and creates new questions.

[HibikiR]

Some free state forums suggest that at the federal level the abbreviation part only applies to the state (i.e. LA for Louisiana) so we can't use abbreviations for the city (i.e. NOLA for New Orleans, Louisiana). Anybody able to confirm this?

[bigstick61]

Some free state forums suggest that at the federal level the abbreviation part only applies to the state (i.e. LA for Louisiana) so we can't use abbreviations for the city (i.e. NOLA for New Orleans, Louisiana). Anybody able to confirm this?

I've seen people use just their first initial to abbreviate their names, and I have a pistol that has just the initials of the importer, a recognized abbreviation of the city name, and the recognized abbreviation for the State.

As posted above, the full name, city, and State would be, if marked as such:

COLE DISTRIBUTING, INCORPORATED SCOTTSVILLE, KY

The actual marking applied, for Federal purposes, is:

CDI SCTVL KY

[ar15barrels]

The same definition for conspicuousness is used as for the Feds (which would imply that the locations pictured above would be GTG), but it is possible DOJ interprets that definition differently. Hard to say.

Looks like the document contradicts itself somewhat. In one place, it says that the information other than the serial number can be placed on the barrel, not just the receiver or frame. In another, it says that information must be on the receiver or frame.

It wants a photo encompassing the entire serial number and the additional information, which implies that they must be together, even though there is no actual requirement I could find in there requiring the same (and implication elsewhere that they might be separate, such as by permitting the markings on the barrel, while the serial number must be on the receiver or frame). Creates some ambiguity.

It says the manufacturer's first and last name (if applicable; I assume this would potentially not apply if manufactured by a trust or something like that), and says nothing about recognized abbreviations thereof, while mentioning such abbreviations for another piece of information that must be engraved, so I presume that it must be the first and last name in full, but this does not seem certain.

The recognized abbreviations part for location is unclear whether it only means the recognized abbreviations for the state may be used, or if such can be used for both city and state. The language could be interpreted either way.

It also does not seem like the depth and height requirements apply to the "other information", kind of like with NFA engravings, as I recall, but this also seems unclear due to other wording elsewhere in the document.

Sounds like if you didn't VolReg before 7-1-18, any serial applied is not considered adequate and you must get a new one, by a deadline that has already passed, but this seems unclear to me. It doesn't sound like the other markings matter, necessarily, as long as it had a serial or other identifying markings that were reported.

I suppose I shouldn't have expected a Cal DOJ guidance document to be of sufficient value. Doesn't clarify everything, leaves some things potentially open to interpretation, and creates new questions.

When in doubt, go with the method that a DMV employee could figure out.
The same hiring method collects people to process USNA applications as collects people to staff a DMV computer.
That's the caliber of person you need to work with.

So use your full first and last name and spell out your city and engrave everything on the receiver in such a way that it's visible in a single photograph.
Then you don't need to worry about the DMV employee figuring it out when they process your application.
Oh and only use blue or black ink...

[Quiet]

Some free state forums suggest that at the federal level the abbreviation part only applies to the state (i.e. LA for Louisiana) so we can't use abbreviations for the city (i.e. NOLA for New Orleans, Louisiana). Anybody able to confirm this?

Per CA DOJ BOF...
1. Full legal name of maker.
2. Full name of city is acceptable, in place of full legal name of city. (can be "Los Angeles", instead of "City of Los Angeles")
3. Legal abbreviation for State is acceptable. (can be "CA", instead of "California")

[raceratb]

I'm interested in building a non ar rifle, I fully expect it to take several months. I understand that if I register it as a receiver it can't be built (which doesn't make sense). If I go the rifle route, how complete does it really need to be to be considered a rifle, tack welded, enough to look like a rifle? Fully functional and finished? Obviously they want full length shots and close ups of the serials