80% lowers MERGED THREADS - please ask in here, not a new thread

[bigbully]

I realize your intentions, but just to be clear... ATF is fed and DOJ is CA. So

I can purchase an 80% lower, mill it out, engrave serialization numbers according to the ATF (Manufacturer, Caliber, Serial Number, ETC. And as of now I don't have to request these numbers from the DOJ, I can just make them up.), then build the AR Pistol as a single shot. At this point it would be a legal single shot AR Pistol. Am I correct?

ATF sets serialization standards, but does not require that you request one. CA DOJ will require that you request one after the new laws take affect.

I know we are all waiting for the DOJ to hand down the AW registration regulations but I am basing this of off what we are expecting.

The CA DOJ doesn't make the laws, but is in charge of setting the procedure for registration.

[Junkie]

My impression is that it needs to be an AW (under the new definition) BEFORE you register it.

What most people do is build it as a single shot and then convert it to semiauto. Only then would it meet the new AW definition, so you'd want to do that before the end of the year.

[Quiet]

I know there have been tons of other questions asked similar to this but my question is very specific to a build I would like to do. MODS, PLEASE DONT DELEATE AS THIS IS REGARDING MORE THAN JUST THE NEW AW LAWS.

I have been researching the legality of building an AR Pistol from a 80% Lower for a single shot for the range. This is what I have gather, please correct me if I am wrong.

I can purchase an 80% lower, mill it out, engrave serialization numbers according to the ATF (Manufacturer, Caliber, Serial Number, ETC. And as of now I don't have to request these numbers from the ATF, I can just make them up.), then build the AR Pistol as a single shot. At this point it would be a legal single shot AR Pistol. Am I correct?

First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a non-detachable 0 round mag/sled*, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.

*non-detachable 0 round mag/sled...
^Until 12-31-2016, a "bullet button" style maglock + 0 round mag/sled will comply with this requirement.
^Starting 01-01-2017, a 0 round mag/sled that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or a solid magazine well will be needed to comply with this requirement.


Second issue... (keeping an AR style pistol CA legal under the new assault weapons laws)

Starting 01-01-2017, in order for it to be considered a fixed magazine, the magazine can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action.

If a AR style pistol is semi-auto and utilizes a "bullet button" style maglock, then it will be considered an assault weapon.

In order to make it legal, one of the following options must be done before 01-01-2018:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Replace the "bullet button" maglock with a maglock that does not allow the magazine to be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example... ARMagLock & BB Reloaded)
C. Install a fixed 10 round magazine that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example... Franklin Armory DFM)
D. Take it out-of-state for storage or to be transferred through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
E. Make it permanently inoperable (destroy it).
F. Surrendered to law enforcement for destruction.


Third issue... (required markings)

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]

Because of the upcoming AW laws I could build it before 1/1/17 and register it as a RAW before 1/1/18. After it has been registered as a RAW, if I so chose (I am not intending to do this but want to know if it is an option), I could make some changes like add a 10 round mag and a mag release button (not a BB but a real mag release), as long as it complies with federal laws (meaning I don't make it an AW in the eye of the feds) this will be a legal AR Pistol. Am I correct?

I could then have an AR pistol with a removable 10 round mag. Is this correct?

Feds have nothing to do with State assault weapons laws.

If it is registered as an assault weapon, it is unknown at this time if the "bullet button" style maglock can be replaced with a magazine release because CA DOJ BOF has not yet released the regulations dealing with the changes to the assault weapons laws.

This is what I have figured to be true from what I have researched but a lot of the info in contradictory and confusing. Let me know if your understanding of the law is different. I know we are all waiting for the ATF to hand down the AW registration laws but I am basing this of off what we are expecting.

BATFE has nothing to do with this.
CA DOJ is the agency in which we are waiting on.

I'm glad you brought up the polymer thing because I was considering doing one. Here is what I found: to legally serialize a polymer lower you need to attach a piece of metal to the side that meets the ATFs standard and put the serial info on the metal piece. I bet there will be a million ideas of how to do this. I could see it being done with some well places rivets. Also, it's easy to heat metal and push it into polymer, I bet someone will come out with plates with posts sticking out the back designed for this. But that might be for another thread.

Penal Code 29180
(b) Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person manufacturing or assembling the firearm shall do all of the following:
(2)(B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

BATFE has ruled that the use of a metal plate with a polymer receiver needs to be done in such a manner that the metal place can not be removed without destroying the receiver.

[Librarian]

And, generally, 'researching the legality' puts this into the How CA Laws Affect Me realm, so moved.

[target_shot]

So if you VolRrg an Ar-15 pistol as single shot, and later convert, will you run into issues later trying to register as a RAW (single shot cannot be an AW)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Whiterabbit]

I thought about asking that on this forum, then I thought better about it BECAUSE THE REGULATIONS ARE NOT WRITTEN YET.

Thanks for giving them ideas though.

You are not registering it as a semi auto though, I can tell you that!

-------------

So, I suggest you build and enjoy your 80% single shot pistol. What you do from that moment (put on central registry, wait to do that, don't wait, mark it, don't mark it, serialize it, hang it from your back bumper like truck nuts) is on you to prepare as best you think you can for the regulations that have not been released yet.

Prep accordingly (to YOUR thinking)

[350skylark]

First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a non-detachable 0 round mag/sled*, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.

*non-detachable 0 round mag/sled...
^Until 12-31-2016, a "bullet button" style maglock + 0 round mag/sled will comply with this requirement.
^Starting 01-01-2017, a 0 round mag/sled that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or a solid magazine well will be needed to comply with this requirement.


Second issue... (keeping an AR style pistol CA legal under the new assault weapons laws)

Starting 01-01-2017, in order for it to be considered a fixed magazine, the magazine can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action.

If a AR style pistol is semi-auto and utilizes a "bullet button" style maglock, then it will be considered an assault weapon.

In order to make it legal, one of the following options must be done before 01-01-2018:
A. Register it as an assault weapon.
B. Replace the "bullet button" maglock with a maglock that does not allow the magazine to be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example... ARMagLock & BB Reloaded)
C. Install a fixed 10 round magazine that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action. (example... Franklin Armory DFM)
D. Take it out-of-state for storage or to be transferred through an out-of-state FFL dealer.
E. Make it permanently inoperable (destroy it).
F. Surrendered to law enforcement for destruction.


Third issue... (required markings)

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include:
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]



Feds have nothing to do with State assault weapons laws.

If it is registered as an assault weapon, it is unknown at this time if the "bullet button" style maglock can be replaced with a magazine release because CA DOJ BOF has not yet released the regulations dealing with the changes to the assault weapons laws.


BATFE has nothing to do with this.
CA DOJ is the agency in which we are waiting on.



Penal Code 29180
(b) Commencing July 1, 2018, prior to manufacturing or assembling a firearm, a person manufacturing or assembling the firearm shall do all of the following:
(2)(B) If the firearm is manufactured or assembled from polymer plastic, 3.7 ounces of material type 17-4 PH stainless steel shall be embedded within the plastic upon fabrication or construction with the unique serial number engraved or otherwise permanently affixed in a manner that meets or exceeds the requirements imposed on licensed importers and licensed manufacturers of firearms pursuant to subsection (i) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto.

BATFE has ruled that the use of a metal plate with a polymer receiver needs to be done in such a manner that the metal place can not be removed without destroying the receiver.

Great post.

As far as. The manufacture name, does it a have to be the persons full name? Or could it be "Johns manufacturing" or "Steve's Machining?

[Junkie]

If you manufactured it as an individual it needs to be your real name. If you're acting for a trust I think you use the trust name, if you're an 07 you use that name.

[Whiterabbit]

Anyone have a regulation citation that says it needs to be your FULL name, as opposed to J Smith or John S or even J. S.?

[MancoFett]

Building AR from stripped lower before 2017 and registering as AW

So I bought a stripped lower in anticipation of the new laws, which I plan to complete this year and register as an AW next year.

My question: How do I prove that it met the requirements of an assault weapon before January 1, 2017.

In other words, my DROS for the lower states it as only lower, not containing the "evil" features of an AW (semi-auto centerfire, bullet button, adjustable stock, etc.) I plan to have it fully built-out by the end of the year, but wondering if I should keep records of it having these features before the end of 2016.

I know we're not sure what the exact registration process will look like, but I just want to make sure I won't have issues actually registering the weapon because I don't have official paperwork proving it met the definition of assault weapon before 2017.

This question actually applies to anybody who has built a non-featureless AR from a stripped lower.

Thanks!

[Oceanbob]

What in the hell are you talking about?

No need to prove anything.

Next year (the entire year) is the registration period. If you decide to register your AR as an Assault Weapon you will do that process on the (not up yet) CDOJ
Website. I imagine it will be a simple form like my 11 RAWs. Name, address, model, serial number.

THATs IT.....!

I recommend you just WAIT and see. No hurry.

Bob

[Oceanbob]

Let me remind you that before 2014 we had NO rifles or shotguns registered by CDOJ.

A vast, vast number (maybe 2 million) ARs in California are not even registered.

I own dozens of pre 2014 long guns. "IF" I decide to register some as Assault Weapons next year via the new Website, I will. However I can also decide to
Use a fixed stock, remove the flash hider and use a featureless grip and
NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE concerning paperwork.

Be well
Bob

For me personally it's stupid to register an AR as an assault Weapon. Too many transportation restrictions and Other limitations. All mine will be featureless.

[MancoFett]

Ok, got it. That is sort of what I figured but wanted to make sure - thanks.

I'm going to move to AZ in the next decade so will put up with the RAW stuff until then.

[bustacaps]

Let me remind you that before 2014 we had NO rifles or shotguns registered by CDOJ.

A vast, vast number (maybe 2 million) ARs in California are not even registered.

I own dozens of pre 2014 long guns. "IF" I decide to register some as Assault Weapons next year via the new Website, I will. However I can also decide to
Use a fixed stock, remove the flash hider and use a featureless grip and
NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE concerning paperwork.

Be well
Bob

For me personally it's stupid to register an AR as an assault Weapon. Too many transportation restrictions and Other limitations. All mine will be featureless.

That's right!!! I don't know why People always think that...when they purchse a firearm... the Govt keeps tab or they already know or that they have records...that Govt. know what firearms you owned. That's not the case at all. Majority of the info stays with the Gun Shops. They might know u bought a rifle or pistol...but...supposedly...that's pretty much it. The Govt don't have those rights according to the constitution. Yes!!!!! Remember the 2nd Amend? People have the rights still to bear arms despite the rediculous CONTROLS that the Feds, States, Counties, Cities & etc put inplaced.

It's really rediculous to register an AR... What!...because some lawmakers that don't know anything about guns...consider it as an Assault Rifle. IT'S ONLY A RIFLE!!!!

It's unconstitutional!!!!

[ifilef]

What in the hell are you talking about?

No need to prove anything.

Next year (the entire year) is the registration period. If you decide to register your AR as an Assault Weapon you will do that process on the (not up yet) CDOJ
Website. I imagine it will be a simple form like my 11 RAWs. Name, address, model, serial number.

THATs IT.....!

I recommend you just WAIT and see. No hurry.

Bob

Amended PC 30900(b)(3) provides:
(3) The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the date the firearm was acquired, the name and address of the individual from whom, or business from which, the firearm was acquired, as well as the registrant’s full name, address, telephone number, date of birth, sex, height, weight, eye color, hair color, and California driver’s license number or California identification card number.

Good luck.

A lot of misinformation here on calguns. Just wait and see, though, because I believe there might be an issue registering builds (above), and, further, that converting from BB to featureless does not avoid registering as an AW. There are some 'nasties' who flame me about the latter, but I will have the last laugh.

As to the former, it would be, in my opinion, manifestly unfair to builders not to permit them to register their builds as AW. One might also think it's in the interest of the State to maximize registrations to eventually reduce their numbers through attrition.

If I were to build, I'd have everything purchased and built by the end of this year, or, at least, have lowers purchased by end of the year for sure, and for obvious reasons. Any lower purchased in 2017 for a build that you wish to register as an AW will likely result in a rejection of the registration and potential criminal charges for the felony of manufacturing an AW.