COE, C&RFFL & medical marijuana card

[ragenmoan]

Was wondering what affect, if any, getting a CA medical marijuana card would affect my CA COE or my Federal C&R FFL.

[desertjosh]

In before it'll make you a prohibited person

[Cuda440]

Afaik, ianal, there's no CA medical card or database. There's individual doctors that listen to your ailment and give you a recommendation paper if they see fit. You take the paper to a dispensary where they call the doctor to verify its legitimacy.

The doctor doesn't report anything to the government, the dispensary doesn't report anything to the government.

Also- recommendations can be given to caregivers of the end user, some people have recommendations without ever using medical marijuana themselves, having a recommendation does not automatically mean you're a prohibited person because of unlawful use.

[Wiz-of-Awd]

Was wondering what affect, if any, getting a CA medical marijuana card would affect my CA COE or my Federal C&R FFL.

It's a bit disturbing that you, as a "Federal C&R FFL" would need to ask this question.

A.W.D.

[NorCalRT]

What does federal law say about it?

[carguy40]

lol, wow

[003]

https://www.atf.gov/file/60211/download

An open letter from ATF re marijuana

[RickD427]

Well, here we go again.......

We've had a ton of threads about marijuana and guns. Rather than repeat the same old dialogue, let's all see how long we can keep this one alive before it gets locked. Be nice, be informative, no cheap shots.

You're probably not going to get too much grief from California state authorities. California law makes persons who are "addicted to a narcotic" prohibited persons. California does define marijuana as being a narcotic. However "addiction" is a relatively high threshold of use level. I'll leave it to folks more knowledgeable than I to address the addiction potential of marijuana.

You're probably screwed as far as the federal law is concerned. Persons who are "unlawful users" of a controlled substance (which includes marijuana) are prohibited persons. California's medical marijuana program does not make marijuana use legal under federal law (technically, it doesn't even make use legal under state law, it only provides an affirmative defense).

Whether one is an "unlawful user" is established by "probable cause." Not every person who possesses a medical marijuana card is a user. Some may be caregivers for a user. There are plausible explanations where a person could be a card holder and not be a user. But the standard of proof is not the absence of a plausible explanation. The standard is "probable cause." So long as the card holder "probably" is also a user, the standard is met.

The ATF has opined that the possession of a medical marijuana card establishes the holder as a federally prohibited person. ATF opinions are not law, but they tend to given great weight in court, and I am not aware of any published decision holding to the contrary.

[ke6guj]

and the new 4473 will make that more clear. refer to question 11e.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/form-example-firearms-transaction-record/download

[bootstrap]

"Patent 507" could be proof that we have a schizo government.

Cannabinoids as antioxidants and neuroprotectants is one of many mj-based patents issued to the US Govt: http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...&RS=PN/6630507

The US Govt has been patenting cannabinoids since the 1940s.

We have HHS obtaining patents for cannabinoids treating a multitude of conditions and we have other govt agencies declaring it has "no medicinal value".

Something's off.

[baggss]

and the new 4473 will make that more clear. refer to question 11e.


https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/...ecord/download

So you lie, and when you get caught become a prohibited person for lying to the Feds OR you tell the truth and get denied because you are already a prohibited person in the eyes of the Feds. It's all about choices and responsibility for ones actions.

Good luck OP. The fact that you even asked leads me to believe that you may be screwed.

[Frisco3Gun]

Concealed means concealed... whoops, wrong thread.

Yes, note the 4473 line item mentioned above. You run a dangerous game. If you are a user, that would make you a prohibited person.

Also Cuda440, most doctors make recommendations. These are not put into a database, except kept on file by the doc's office. There are also actual databases though, and these are for people who apply through their city.

See here. Interestingly enough, I doubt people even use this program at all considering $120 is very steep while other "doctors" charge anywhere from $30-60.

YMMV, be smart out there.

[Rusty_Rebar]

I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone in California would even bother with a Medical Marijuana card. Frankly it is so easy to get here, and the penalties are so lax for possession, I cannot see a reason to "ask the government" for the right to use it.

I also do not see how it is any different than someone who uses alcohol on occasion.

[dfletcher]

and the new 4473 will make that more clear. refer to question 11e.


https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/...ecord/download

Piggybacking on the previously mentioned ATF admin instruction memo to FFLs, wouldn't it be better for the revised 4473 to include a warning that state issued MMJ card triggers "prohibited person" status? Whether it ought to or not is a separate discussion, but that ATF has that position, that they inform FFL dealers is fact.

[Cuda440]

Piggybacking on the previously mentioned ATF admin instruction memo to FFLs, wouldn't it be better for the revised 4473 to include a warning that state issued MMJ card triggers "prohibited person" status? Whether it ought to or not is a separate discussion, but that ATF has that position, that they inform FFL dealers is fact.

How so?

ATF clearly states that if you are a user, or in possession of, marijuana, you are in violation of federal law.

A medical recommendation does not prove that you possess or use.