Rohg Industries CNC milling and 80% lowers owner indicted

[curtisfong]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByJBP91UxfLoRVctUm5DR01MNnc/view?usp=sharing

Owner of La Habra Manufacturing Firm Charged with Illegally Manufacturing and Selling Key Component for AR-15-Type Rifles

LOS ANGELES – A federal grand jury today indicted the owner of an Orange County manufacturing business on a federal charge related to the illegal manufacture and sale of lower receivers for AR-15-type rifles, as well as completed firearms.

The one-count indictment charges Joseph Roh with engaging in the business of manufacturing and dealing in firearms without a license, a felony offense that carries a statutory maximum penalty of five years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine.

The indictment alleges that Roh, 46, of Fullerton, did not have the proper license, but he manufactured and sold hundreds of lower receivers for AR-15-type firearms. In addition to the lower receivers, the indictment alleges that Roh illegally sold complete rifles and pistols.

Through his business, ROHG Industries in La Habra, Roh allegedly started with unfinished lower receivers for AR-15-style firearms. A lower receiver is the frame of a completed firearm that holds the trigger and hammer. An unfinished lower receiver, when machined further, constitutes a firearm. Roh and his employees would finish the lower receivers by machining the devices with a computer-numerically-controlled – or CNC – machine and drill presses that Roh maintained at the La Habra warehouse.

Roh attempted to avoid the licensing requirement by requiring that each customer play a token role in the manufacturing process, which often meant merely pushing a button on a CNC machine, while company employees did the vast majority of the work.
While the sale of unfinished lower receivers is not regulated, the manufacture and sale of completed lower receivers – which are considered firearms under federal law – requires a proper license.

Additionally, Roh would, if the customer wanted, assemble the rest of the firearm by adding an upper receiver, a barrel, and other necessary parts to the lower receiver.

Roh has agreed to surrender tomorrow and be arraigned on the indictment tomorrow afternoon in United States District Court.

[e90bmw]

Not much to say.......

[Jimmybacon43]

Yeah this is why no one is willing to lend out their machinery for 80% builds anymore.

[boxbro]

If the customer pushes the button, the "firearm" is then created and legally owned the customer.
How can adding "parts" to said legal firearm be illegal?

[moleculo]

Yeah this is why no one is willing to lend out their machinery for 80% builds anymore.

The difference here is that apparently they were selling the 80% lowers and in a lot of cases actually milling it for you if you came to their shop. I believe most of the other shops that were lending out machines were trying to do it legitimately: i.e. you did all of the handling of your 80% lower, all of the handling of the machinery, etc. From what I recall hearing about Rohg, they weren't even attempting to follow the law.

[9M62]

This has been done before, and charges have been filed before.

I always thought pressing the button on a CNC machine, for a fee, was hardly "manufacturing a firearm yourself" and that both the operator and the owner of the machine could be at risk for problems.

Obviously, based on this case, and others, I was correct.

Think about it objectively. He's running a business that SELLS 80% lowers, AND for a fee allows the user to complete that lower while on site. Pretty hard to say that he's not in the business of manufacturing firearms.

[Jimmybacon43]

I thought that technically if the consumer did anything to an 80% lower, like any small amount of milling to bring it to say 81%, isn't it now considered a firearm? And can't it now be worked on by someone else?

[riddler408]

This has been done before, and charges have been filed before.

I always thought pressing the button on a CNC machine, for a fee, was hardly "manufacturing a firearm yourself" and that both the operator and the owner of the machine could be at risk for problems.

Obviously, based on this case, and others, I was correct.

Think about it objectively. He's running a business that SELLS 80% lowers, AND for a fee allows the user to complete that lower while on site. Pretty hard to say that he's not in the business of manufacturing firearms.

That's the kicker....

[john67elco]

Oh ya I remember this guy. Mr hole in the barrel.

[CCWFacts]

Roh attempted to avoid the licensing requirement by requiring that each customer play a token role in the manufacturing process, which often meant merely pushing a button on a CNC machine, while company employees did the vast majority of the work.

Oops!

He is hosed. He should plea and hope he can avoid prison. He will never regain his gun rights.

[bohoki]

railroaded of course maybe he did fly a little too fast and loose i wonder if there was any gun owners on the jury

[edgerly779]

I just got a pm from a calgunner who asked on here where to finish an 80% with cnc. He said he found one I told him forget it. Batf had spoken on this. There is always someone who did not get the memo even a year later.

[inalienable]

This has been done before, and charges have been filed before.

I always thought pressing the button on a CNC machine, for a fee, was hardly "manufacturing a firearm yourself" and that both the operator and the owner of the machine could be at risk for problems.

Obviously, based on this case, and others, I was correct.

I agree. From what I understand of what these guys were doing, they went too far. It's silly that we have to come up with these distinctions, but if I had to make one I'd say that if the customer is the only one touching the lower from the time you sell it to him to the time it's complete the seller should be in the clear. If it's true that in some cases the only thing the customer did was push the button, I'd say that is breaking the law.

Think about it objectively. He's running a business that SELLS 80% lowers, AND for a fee allows the user to complete that lower while on site. Pretty hard to say that he's not in the business of manufacturing firearms.

This I don't necessarily agree with. For the sake of argument, let's say I had a business with two adjoining rooms. In one room I sold 80% lowers and other AR parts and in the other room I had machining tools. If I sold the lower to the customer, he walked over and did whatever he needed to do on the machines himself, and came back with the completed lower to have me attach the rest of the components, I'd say there should be no problem with that. Once the lower has been machined to the point where it can have components added to become a functioning firearm the "manufacturing" has been completed IMO. I have no plans on testing this business idea out though, heh.

This is all moot anyway. Pretty soon anyone will be able to push a button and make a lower from start to finish. What are they going to say, if you didn't program the G-code yourself you're not the one manufacturing the firearm? At that point you might as well say that if I didn't make the mill I used to make my lower then I didn't make the firearm. Ugh...now I've got a headache...

- inalienable

[ElvenSoul]

Dude you want a Ghost Gun you gotta get the

TN Arms Ghost Reciever

http://www.tnarmsco.com/ghost-gun-clear-stripped-lower-receiver/

Pro tip does not fire a zillion rounds a second

[DarkSoul]

These were the guys that would sell you an 80, and you would "step into the back" and basically hand it to a guy to set up, you would push a button, and 20 minutes later, walk out with a complete firearm.

Anyone that even thinks this is a legit way to buy/sell an 80/firearm, well, your an idiot. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Common sense SHOULD have kicked in for these guys.