Rohg Industries CNC milling and 80% lowers owner indicted

[9M62]

No disagreement here.

[jdben92883]

5 years statutory prison time has sure gotta take the wind out of your sail.

[Joe]

Think of the victims.

[Victor Cachat]

He was just trying to make a better life for his family.

[Wiz-of-Awd]

5 years statutory prison time has sure gotta take the wind out of your sail.

It's the slipping into port that's gonna hurt...

A.W.D.

[CSACANNONEER]

If only that were the end of it. He was using chinese pot metal components. A forum user had one of his gas blocks explode(was probably one of those aluminum gas blocks you see floating around on ebay), then came to calguns to crap all over the user with his shill accounts(friends) calling him a liar and such. The guy is a grade A dirtbag who was actually endangering gun owners, making Blackthorne look like the Smith and Wesson Performance Center by comparison. It's unfortunate that the only way to put a stop to his trash factory was the ATF using it's bs authority to attack those who would make firearms without the approval of the government, but this guy deserves to rot.

That made me LOL.

[epilepticninja]

For me, I'll buy a 100% lower, the legal way. Kthx. As much as I love guns and my gun rights, I ain't going to prison over them. Fork that.

[meaty-btz]

For me, I'll buy a 100% lower, the legal way. Kthx. As much as I love guns and my gun rights, I ain't going to prison over them. Fork that.

What nonsense are you talking about.

Home builds are 100% legal.. done yourself.

[markdesign]

This guys used to be at the crossroads gun show all the time. You would normally buy the 80% lower at the show, make an appointment at their shop in La Habra for the milling.

I had no idea they were also doing everything there on the same day.

[glock_this]

What nonsense are you talking about.

Home builds are 100% legal.. done yourself.

That is not what he is saying as I read it relative to the thread topic. He is saying IF you are going to essentially end up with a 100% lower, better to do it through proper channels or methods versus using this guy and going and buying the 80% block and then milling it right then and there at the same time and walking out with a 100%. It's pretty known ATF is not down with that setup - hence this issue. Neither he nor anyone is making statements about the legality of 80% lower or homebuilds; but this was not a homebuild setup.

[meaty-btz]

That is not what he is saying as I read it relative to the thread topic. He is saying IF you are going to essentially end up with a 100% lower, better to do it through proper channels or methods versus using this guy and going and buying the 80% block and then milling it right then and there at the same time and walking out with a 100%. It's pretty known ATF is not down with that setup - hence this issue. Neither he nor anyone is making statements about the legality of 80% lower or homebuilds; but this was not a homebuild setup.

I saw no specificity in his post but thanks for the subtext.

[Intimid8tor]

I agree. From what I understand of what these guys were doing, they went too far. It's silly that we have to come up with these distinctions, but if I had to make one I'd say that if the customer is the only one touching the lower from the time you sell it to him to the time it's complete the seller should be in the clear. If it's true that in some cases the only thing the customer did was push the button, I'd say that is breaking the law.



This I don't necessarily agree with. For the sake of argument, let's say I had a business with two adjoining rooms. In one room I sold 80% lowers and other AR parts and in the other room I had machining tools. If I sold the lower to the customer, he walked over and did whatever he needed to do on the machines himself, and came back with the completed lower to have me attach the rest of the components, I'd say there should be no problem with that. Once the lower has been machined to the point where it can have components added to become a functioning firearm the "manufacturing" has been completed IMO. I have no plans on testing this business idea out though, heh.

This is all moot anyway. Pretty soon anyone will be able to push a button and make a lower from start to finish. What are they going to say, if you didn't program the G-code yourself you're not the one manufacturing the firearm? At that point you might as well say that if I didn't make the mill I used to make my lower then I didn't make the firearm. Ugh...now I've got a headache...

- inalienable

I believe the atf requires gunsmiths to have their ffl as well so you have that issue.

[CASEC]

5 years statutory prison time has sure gotta take the wind out of your sail.

5 year maximum

[mr2ndamendment]

So the question. Are these guys the "Ares Armor" of 80 percent mill-renting by intentionally flirting on the border of "legal" -or- are they a standard mill-renting house where customers do 100% of the work?

Not going to conclude on anything yet, but so far it appears they were doing at least some portion of the mill-work and operations on behalf of customers, which WOULD require a FFL. The building/assembling of lowers/rifles into functional rifles is immaterial in this regard, the primary focus of the indictment is the manufacture of the receiver itself.

The prosecution will attempt to prove that he was helping create 81-100% lowers by him or his people doing the machining operations, rather than the customer handling the unit and pressing the button with zero help/interaction from him or his staff.

[CASEC]

Sad Day.....

However you slice it no government has the right to regulate away honest people's right to own or trade in small arms. This guy was serving the disenfranchised, and preserving Liberty by helping people obtain untraceable small arms as is their right. Now he will likely serve some amount of prison time for his efforts, and the government can use his circumstance as propaganda to scare everyone else back in line.