Gun shop FUD on an AR, or is this a felony?

[motorhead]

ask them how to load a bb equipped ak.

[b25]

Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding what I've read about OLLs and the requirement to have a Fixed 10rd magazine when features are installed, I'd have to say there's some bad information being stated here.

Of course, since I'm the new guy and don't want to step on anyones toes, please know that I am fully prepared to fall on my own sword if someone can explain (show) where/how I'm misunderstanding/misinterpreting the PC.

Our own CALGUNS.NET OLL FAQ contains verbiage that contradicts what many responses in this thread state is ok - in a nutshell folks are saying "an individual who has a BB installed can use a 'tool' to remove and replace a magazine during rifle operation (i.e.: on a range) while features are installed."

Our OLL FAQ (http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htmRemember: a bare AR or AK lower with a pistol grip and/or a folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock is an assault weapon. A receiver with open mag well but no pistol grip but having a barrel attached with a flash hider mounted is also an assault weapon.)

NEVER HAVE AN OFF-LIST LOWER RECEIVER WITH AN OPEN MAGAZINE WELL AND A PISTOL GRIP OR FOLDING (etc.) STOCK STILL ATACHED - EVEN FOR A MOMENT!!
ALSO, NEVER PUT A BARRELED UPPER RECEIVER WITH A FLASH HIDER ON AN OFF-LIST LOWER , UNLESS A NONDETACHABLE LO-CAP MAG HAS ALREADY BEEN AFFIXED.


Simply based on the bolded statements above, how can it be interpreted that it is appropriate to remove the mag during rifle operation on the range? The verbiage stating that a detachable magazine is one that DOES NOT require a tool to remove it is a qualifying statement that considers the magazine fixed.

It would seem that folks are interpreting the 'tool' statement to read "if a tool is required to remove the magazine, then it's ok for me to use that tool to remove the magazine." - Based on what I read, doing so with features installed would make the rifle an AW.


I hope my questioning this doesn't label me as another "FUD" guy - if I've grossly misunderstood, I am fully prepared to admit it - all I ask is that you help me understand where I'm missing the mark.


-b

[M. Sage]

The FAQ is out of date, and needs to be changed. That's two years old now (Bill!), and we were a bit more jumpy about it then. Also, this predates the Bullet Button, and with a P50, if you removed the mag, you'd definitely be committing a felony.

[eaglemike]

Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding what I've read about OLLs and the requirement to have a Fixed 10rd magazine when features are installed, I'd have to say there's some bad information being stated here.

Of course, since I'm the new guy and don't want to step on anyones toes, please know that I am fully prepared to fall on my own sword if someone can explain (show) where/how I'm misunderstanding/misinterpreting the PC.

Our own CALGUNS.NET OLL FAQ contains verbiage that contradicts what many responses in this thread state is ok - in a nutshell folks are saying "an individual who has a BB installed can use a 'tool' to remove and replace a magazine during rifle operation (i.e.: on a range) while features are installed."

Our OLL FAQ (http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htmRemember: a bare AR or AK lower with a pistol grip and/or a folding, telescoping or thumbhole stock is an assault weapon. A receiver with open mag well but no pistol grip but having a barrel attached with a flash hider mounted is also an assault weapon.)

NEVER HAVE AN OFF-LIST LOWER RECEIVER WITH AN OPEN MAGAZINE WELL AND A PISTOL GRIP OR FOLDING (etc.) STOCK STILL ATACHED - EVEN FOR A MOMENT!!
ALSO, NEVER PUT A BARRELED UPPER RECEIVER WITH A FLASH HIDER ON AN OFF-LIST LOWER , UNLESS A NONDETACHABLE LO-CAP MAG HAS ALREADY BEEN AFFIXED.


Simply based on the bolded statements above, how can it be interpreted that it is appropriate to remove the mag during rifle operation on the range? The verbiage stating that a detachable magazine is one that DOES NOT require a tool to remove it is a qualifying statement that considers the magazine fixed.

It would seem that folks are interpreting the 'tool' statement to read "if a tool is required to remove the magazine, then it's ok for me to use that tool to remove the magazine." - Based on what I read, doing so with features installed would make the rifle an AW.


I hope my questioning this doesn't label me as another "FUD" guy - if I've grossly misunderstood, I am fully prepared to admit it - all I ask is that you help me understand where I'm missing the mark.


-b

You might want to also be sure you are familiar with the distinctions between a centerfire and a rimfire rifle.... The flow chart is a really great reference, and probably the best place to start. A lower can be used with rinfore or centerfire rifles. It's also been stated on this forum that Ca does not have constructive possession laws. If you are looking for a gray area, this might be close - especially since the DOJ seems to believe that interpretation of Ca law in entirely up to the 58 D.A's - or your local attorney!

[Sobriquet]

No, your best way would probably be to buy the upper and lower separately. Have them send the upper straight to your house (legal), and DROS the lower. Install the BB in the lower and install the upper at home.

You could buy a complete rifle, but then someone would either have to remove all the evil features before shipping it to your FFL, install a bullet button before shipping, or separate the upper and lower and ship the upper to your house and the lower to your FFL.

It's probably just easier to buy the two separately.

I'll go that route when the time comes, then. I appreciate all your responses, guys. Now I just need to do the normal research and decide what it is I want.

Thanks again, all.

[tombinghamthegreat]

This was the gun shop at the Oak Tree range.

I did not think oak tree was the type to spread fud and last i went there they have AR OLL and featureless rifles IIRC. As long as there is a BB then you could detach it and if its a prince50 then you don't detach it unless you are out of CA or it is featureless from my understanding.

IMO i would go with a featureless build.

[CaliforniaCarry]

I did not think oak tree was the type to spread fud and last i went there they have AR OLL and featureless rifles IIRC. As long as there is a BB then you could detach it and if its a prince50 then you don't detach it unless you are out of CA or it is featureless from my understanding.

IMO i would go with a featureless build.

They generally seem to know their stuff... but there's a few employees who just don't know the law.

I went there before I turned 21 to take my HSC test. After I had completed the test without missing any of the questions (not that hard ), the employee asked for my credit card and ID. He noticed that I wasn't 21 yet, and I assured him that it was perfectly legal. He went to ask his supervisor... who promptly came in and gave me all kinds of crap about how I was going to attempt a straw purchase. I showed him where in the HSC guide book it says that the HSC test can be administered to anyone over 18... and then he came back with some crap about how he was an NRA certified instructor and that the laws must have changed because he was obviously right.

Oh yeah, and the same guy, on a later date, gave me a bunch of BS about how in CA it's impossible to legally own a handgun if you're under 21... nevermind the whole gifting from parent to child thing.

[aplinker]

Ah yes, the once a week, "but a gun shop said it's illegal!"

And nicely we have someone coming in with the AR/AK Memo to show us how we're all wrong.

Information and products change. If people would simply read through all of this 99.9% of issues would be fixed. It has links to this and even mentions the AR/AK memo is out of date.

I'll go that route when the time comes, then. I appreciate all your responses, guys. Now I just need to do the normal research and decide what it is I want.

Thanks again, all.

You're in SoCal... ColdWar has complete Noveskes w/BBs

[b25]

I've spent an hour reading Gene's bullet button thread; I can now see that the Bullet Button is a play on words (detachable).

uclaplinker - we're not all experts, nor do we all have HOURS to read through lengthy threads (although I try my best). My post wasn't intended to 'show you how you're wrong' - rather, I cited (what I thought was credible) the CALGUNS ARK/AK OLL FAQ/Memo. Since thousands of folks come here for information, hopefully the admins/moderators will update the FAQ which will undoubtedly eliminate some of the "FUD".

-b

[Sobriquet]

You're in SoCal... ColdWar has complete Noveskes w/BBs

Are you talking about these guys?

http://www.coldwarshooters.net/

I see that they carry Noveske uppers, but nothing else. Is there somewhere that stocks Noveskes in SoCal so that I could actually see one of these things in person? I'm also considering a LMT.

[b25]

Sobriquet; I just purchased and received an LMT Upper - I'm very happy w/ it!

[GenLee]

I can't believe that you have 428 post and still don't own an AR.

I was just thinking that same thing!

[Ironchef]

I believe Spike's Tactical will ship with installed BBs/P50s a complete AR.

[Sobriquet]

I was just thinking that same thing!

Hey, I'm working on it! lol

[tenpercentfirearms]

I believe Spike's Tactical will ship with installed BBs/P50s a complete AR.

No.