Gun shop FUD on an AR, or is this a felony?

[Sobriquet]

I'm interested in buying my first AR in a bit, so I'm doing some preliminary research. While at the range yesterday morning, I wandered into the gun shop and was looking at a few of the things there.

One of the rifles had a Bullet Button installed. I asked how you use the tool to drop the mag, and he replied "You don't." After looking at him quizzically for a moment, I told him I thought you just poked something in the hole and the mag dropped free.

He said "Yes, you can, but doing that at the range is a felony." Is that true? Is it illegal to swap magazines at the range - provided of course that they're legal 10 round magazines?

If that's true, I may very well reevaluate what my next purchase will be.

[ENTHUSIAST]

I am gonna call on this maybe the more senior members can answer better than I but my understanding is that with a Prince 50 you MUST top load ONLY and never loosen the screw to drop the mag with it having an "evil" features configuration ie. Pistol Grip, Flash Hider, Collapsable Stock etc.

BUT with a B-15 or a Bullet Button Mag lock it it OK because the mag is NEVER in a state where it is DETACHABLE it is ONLY able to be ATTACHABLE and a tool must always be used to remove the mag thus it is never in a ILLEGAL configuration at any time while droping a mag to reload.

My $.02

EDIT: I have heard too many gun shop guys making up all kinds of BS about what they think is "legal" just to cover thier own you know what.

MOST shops operate this way unfortunatly I think there are only a few places in the entire STATE that really NEVER engage in FUD or CYA as a regular part of business.

[Knight]

FUD to the max!

[gcvt]

Which shop was this?

[Sobriquet]

Which shop was this?

This was the gun shop at the Oak Tree range.

[Sobriquet]

Does anyone have a cite or something I could read?

[dfletcher]

I'm interested in buying my first AR in a bit, so I'm doing some preliminary research. While at the range yesterday morning, I wandered into the gun shop and was looking at a few of the things there.

One of the rifles had a Bullet Button installed. I asked how you use the tool to drop the mag, and he replied "You don't." After looking at him quizzically for a moment, I told him I thought you just poked something in the hole and the mag dropped free.

He said "Yes, you can, but doing that at the range is a felony." Is that true? Is it illegal to swap magazines at the range - provided of course that they're legal 10 round magazines?

If that's true, I may very well reevaluate what my next purchase will be.

Interesting - I was unaware that location within the state of California determined whether or not one violated the law. Based on this thesis, I suppose you can possess new hi caps and otherwise not legal at the range AWs while you're at home.

"God why did you put all the idiots in the world at the same time?"
The Great Santini

[tenpercentfirearms]

Then ask them to see the rifle. Before they can stop you pull out an ink pen and drop the mag and say, "It just fell out, call the cops!"

No, it is not a felony and it would make zero sense why a gun shop would sell something that was designed to be a felony, even if the gun shop doesn't know it.

Here is my explanation from my FAQ.

The Bullet Button device installs into a standard AR15 receiver. This device allows for a 10 round magazine to be removed from the rifle with the use of a tool, but not with your hands or fingers. Since it requires a tool every time, it does not meet the definition of a "detachable magazine".

[Bukowski]

There's lots of reading out there on this. It basically boils down to the fact that magazines that detach without a tool are illegal while the law doesn't prohibit attachable magazines.

Depending on comfort level some folks will stick to true 10 round mags (instead of 10/30's etc) and top load. I think that if LEO's are going to hassle you they will regardless of loading method.

Read through the threads and see if AR ownership meets your personal comfort level.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=108607&highlight=attachable+detachable+magazine

I have BB's on all of my AR's and keep a copy of:

http://www.calguns.net/copmemo2.pdf

in my gun case. That's as as I get. These days when you go to Angeles Range you'll see more EBR than anything else...

[rod]

It is NOT illegal to drop a mag from a Bullet Button build. The reason is a little confusing until you read and understand the definition of detachable magazine. The magazine itself isn't detachable or attachable by itself. It's just a housing that holds bullets and feeds them into your rifle. The rifle is what needs to be configured to accept magazines in a way where they can't be detachable. Once you remove a magazine from a rifle with a bullet button installed, you are left with a magazine in one hand, and an open mag well in the other. With an open mag well, you now have a single shot rifle, which is legal all day long. Once you insert a magazine, it is locked in place automatically, aka fixed mag, and that too is legal all day long.

It's nice to see more and more dealers selling rifles with bullet buttons, but know what you're buying and have confidence in what you're buying so that you won't have to ask any questions at the counter. This will avoid any FUD you might encounter. There are plenty of granola bar eating, tree hugging, feel good type of people that don't want you to have a rifle of any kind and they will stop at nothing at spreading false information and scaring gun dealers into going to prison and loosing their business if they sell bullet buttons and such. Unfortunatly, a lot of those people work at the DOJ. The law is the law, despite what some people think, and only the law can be enforced. Bullet buttons are legal and so is dropping mags at the range.

[Sobriquet]

So if an individual wanted to buy something like a complete (functional) Noveske, how do you go about ordering one with a Bullet Button? Are these major manufacturers able to install them at the factory, is it done at the dealer, or are you able to take it home and do it yourself? I seriously doubt the latter case would be possible.

[Titans]

So if an individual wanted to buy something like a complete (functional) Noveske, how do you go about ordering one with a Bullet Button? Are these major manufacturers able to install them at the factory, is it done at the dealer, or are you able to take it home and do it yourself? I seriously doubt the latter case would be possible.

You order the part and install yourself.

[rod]

There are out of state dealers that will install bullet buttons for you. I don't know which ones though, and there are some CA dealers that stock, or can order, rifles with bullet buttons installed. The only way you can DIY is to start with a stripped lower and build it yourself.

[Quake0]

FUD

[Sobriquet]

You order the part and install yourself.

So how do you get it home in a legal configuration if it has a pistol grip to install the Bullet Button?