They Pile on the Laws Faster Than We Can Fight Them

[advocatusdiaboli]

Yes thanks for fleshing out what I was writing about. What you are describing is what I was calling the old boys club...the back scratching and relationships between members that forms over decades of being in office. Stability and regularity and institutional memory are better than a new crop of young Turks pushing their own agendas every two terms.

Term limits is two-edged sword. On one-hand it flushes the system of entrenched leaders and militates against cronyism, nepotism, and the coziness that comes with familiarity. It's human nature so we need to keep the competitive pressure up to get better performance from pols.

On the other hand, the lobbyists stay on point and so end up more experienced than the legislators, so the new legislators go to them for advice, and are easily manipulated. Plus new legislators, worried about building momentum in their districts, are more eager to take money and easier to buy off. A well-entrenched pol can refuse some shady donors or those who are too off-center in views and survive with the electorate. A new-comer is less likely to take the risk. It would be interesting to plot time in office with the zeal to pander to the fear of a leftist electorate with gun control laws.

In the end, as I look at the CA Legislature today, I see it hasn't had any long-lasting impact: we just traded sources of corruption.

[e90bmw]

http://disinfo.com/2011/08/the-black....U0aIegm4.dpuf.

Ah hello ! Angry people of whatever color would have prompted a law ! If you recall 5 business's issued statements about non angry folks carrying unloaded rifles .

I doubt in the 1960's a group of white men in the capital would have elicited the same response. It might now with our anti-2A culture, but I'll have to agree to disagree.

Tactics like the communist inspired black panthers are designed by Marxists to make good govts look bad by overreacting. Apparently it had some success as we RKBA types are arguing about a law passed 50 years ago .

Oh, and the Democratic Republic of The USA was doing a bang up job of civil rights to the minorities of this country, right??? The government didn't need any help looking bad.

I don't believe that police brutality was anywhere near what was reported by an anti cop media .this media loves to elevate blacks and to give them a victim mentality. If you recall it was the media who fanned racial flames over Rodney King and Trayvon Martin .
When blacks killed 67 whites and Hispanics during their robberys and looting sprees, after the King verdict this same media never issued a condemnation or a report on the brutality except in the most sensational incidents ( Reginald Denny)

Let's separate the 1960's from Rodney King riots. You cannot hope to lump it all in one discussion and have a clear and concise argument.

So you can bury your head in the sand all you like about our government police institutions and racism. Peaceful demonstrations were met with violence from the police. The National Guard was deployed in Berkeley by then Governor Ronald Reagan. The same guy that signed the Mulford Act.

Likewise the media never covered or condemned the black on white mob attacks documented 100s of times in the book " white girl bleeds a lot "

If it wasn't covered it should have been and those guilty, IMHO, should be removed from society, permanently.

The wikepedia links which contained story's of black panthers feeding breakfast to neighborhood children sounds like bull s---t .
I mean how does a group of men get up, go to work , then buy grocerys and prepare breakfast for neighborhood children ?
It also appeared these men had lots of free time, wonder how they survived without jobs?

There you have it, you don't believe.
From Stanford University:

http://web.stanford.edu/group/blackpanthers/programs.shtml

Many of their ideas and programs have been co-opted and put into mainstream. I love how you imply illegal activity in your above statement.

Yes I do believe there are agents with out honor and without principle . We have examples not related to the black panther party.
Out of curiosity where did the Wikipedia get the info on supposed FBI wrongdoing ?
I don't recall charges or even FOIA requests .

Umm...... Here they are.

http://vault.fbi.gov/cointel-pro

http://vault.fbi.gov/cointel-pro/cointel-pro-black-extremists

You should also read:

http://blackpanther.org/FAQs.html

There is no "New Black Panther Party". The foundation asserts that some band of fools has grabbed the name trying to establish themselves, lacking an identity of their own.

Also the BPP was never about hating white people or about aggressive violence as you would like to assert by linking it the "Knockout Game" and "White Girl Bleed A Lot". Those are pure criminals and have no agenda for social and political change.

I'm pretty sure I'm done communicating with one as yourself, that asserts that police violence against black folks in America from the 1950's and 1960's was over reported. That's like saying the plight of the Native American was over reported or that the Japanese internment camps weren't so bad and the Holocaust wasn't the horror indicated.

Most recently the Rider Case in Oakland exemplifies the police attitude that existed in Oakland for more than a generation. But, police brutality doesn't really exist and CoIntelPro is just the leftwing creation trying to demonize a righteous government.

Before you doubt the heinous past of our government institutions read about the following:

The Tuskegee Bad Blood Experiment (CDC) - http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

Eugenics in America - (Where the Nazis and Hitler got their ideas)
CIA Project MKUltra
1953 CIA organized overthrow if the Iranian Government (This is why we have the issues in Iran today)

This is just a small start. Get your head out of the sand.


Politicians and people in government are motivated by a lot of things.
Very few are motivated with protecting the rights of individuals and standing behind The Constitution. That is why we are discussing 2A rights. Exactly why.

[ja308]

Your 1st link
COINTELPRO The FBI began COINTELPRO—short for Counterintelligence Program—in 1956 to disrupt the activities of the Communist Party of the United States. In the 1960s, it was expanded to include a number of other domestic groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Socialist Workers Party, and the Black Panther Party. All COINTELPRO operations were ended in 1971. Although limited in scope (about two-tenths of one percent of the FBI’s workload over a 15-year period), COINTELPRO was later rightfully criticized by Congress and the American people for abridging first amendment rights and for other reasons.

Sorry I really don't believe communist and socialist have the right to overthrow our constitutional govt . Using the very freedoms designed for free people .
Communist and left leaning govts have murdered over 70 million of their own people for politics ! Compare that with the little piddling examples you provided ,
wwwjpfo.org

So these fine upstanding black panthers with their motto of kill the pigs had no animosity toward white people ? They further had the only good pig is a dead pig mantra .
Calgunners need not speculate on how well those tactics would work in any Marxist country, like Cuba, El Salvador, China or Russia?
But the FBI infiltrates and watches them and Calgunners such as yourself turn them into choir boys . Are you also critising the FBI for watching the KKK ?

I don't about other Calgunners, but it would appear watching this film that these people are a threat to everyone who holds a job .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HSlpRp4wLCw

Looks to me that the knockout game and black riots against whites is just a continuation of what the BP advocated in this film from 68

[meaty-btz]

Despite all of this chit chat.. if California Libertarians and Repubs really wanted change.. they would have voted in the last election...

D voter turn out was so low if the repubs alone in california mobilized at 50% we would have swept every single election that was up....

The fact that we didn't tells me that they want someone "else" to make the change happen.

A rare window opened and we ... did nothing. Hmmmm

[advocatusdiaboli]

Despite all of this chit chat.. if California Libertarians and Repubs really wanted change.. they would have voted in the last election...

D voter turn out was so low if the repubs alone in california mobilized at 50% we would have swept every single election that was up....

The fact that we didn't tells me that they want someone "else" to make the change happen.

A rare window opened and we ... did nothing. Hmmmm

That is a gross mischaracterization, a lot of ballot issues and positions weren't up for vote. There is no way we'd have taken much ground (if any) in the Legislature and that is where the trouble is. I voted, but I often wonder why I bothered.

[meaty-btz]

That is a gross mischaracterization, a lot of ballot issues and positions weren't up for vote. There is no way we'd have taken much ground (if any) in the Legislature and that is where the trouble is. I voted, but I often wonder why I bothered.

When you are in desperate straights.. you take every opportunity to advance your cause.

It wasn't a gross characterization. The voter turn out was SO LOW that all it would take even in Demo strong holds would have been for about 50% of the registered repubs to turn out to have made action happen.

Do you only advance when it's easy or when you can gain big or do you take every opportunity presented by your opponent to gain ground easily?

The problem is that while the democrat turn out was absurdly low the republican turn out was even more absurdly LOW.

The message delivered in the last election was clear. Our side of the Isle is unwilling to get off their butts and vote.

We are in a fight for our rights and livelyhood here. This isn't a joke and if this isnt enough to mobilize us at near 100% levels EVERY ELECTION DAY.. then we will never gain ground and will always lose out.

Anything less than 100% is a travesty during a war, our side instead sits at home and *****es.

[advocatusdiaboli]

When you are in desperate straights.. you take every opportunity to advance your cause.

It wasn't a gross characterization. The voter turn out was SO LOW that all it would take even in Demo strong holds would have been for about 50% of the registered repubs to turn out to have made action happen.

Do you only advance when it's easy or when you can gain big or do you take every opportunity presented by your opponent to gain ground easily?

The problem is that while the democrat turn out was absurdly low the republican turn out was even more absurdly LOW.

The message delivered in the last election was clear. Our side of the Isle is unwilling to get off their butts and vote.

We are in a fight for our rights and livelyhood here. This isn't a joke and if this isnt enough to mobilize us at near 100% levels EVERY ELECTION DAY.. then we will never gain ground and will always lose out.

Anything less than 100% is a travesty during a war, our side instead sits at home and *****es.

Yeah, you are right. We are doing this all to ourselves. No one else is doing it. I think I'll leave now.

[meaty-btz]

Yeah, you are right. We are doing this all to ourselves. No one else is doing it. I think I'll leave now.

The side with greater numbers and that is winning can afford to sit on it's butt. Sure, you and I voted. But if our compatriots don't get moving then as you say.. it is pointless.

Yes, in part we are doing this to ourselves because we are not taking it seriously enough. As a group our turn out is so low that it sends the message that we don't care what Sacramento Does, whatever it is won't be enough to motivate our base enough to pose a real threat to them.

We need to look at this like it is the Winter War. The Finns didn't kill several million Russians and hold back armies many times their size by sitting at the capitol *****ing about lack of ammo and guns and tanks.

When they didn't have anti-tank weapons they made Molotov cocktails and used those against the Russian tanks and destroyed many of them. They didn't sit home and say.. well we dont have any Panzerfaust so we cant fight those tanks. No, they got beer bottles, filled them with a gas mixture and put a fuze on it and went balls out to stop the Russian advance.

In this state we are outnumbered and out gunned on a similar level in the political arena. We won't win every fight but we will lose every battle we don't show up for.

[ja308]

A low republican turnout is a direct result of gun owners failing to realise that the anti gun media sources they honor with their listening,viewing and reading is entirely to blame .

The democrat Hollywood controlled media juggeraugt is much more intelligent than we are . They twist and spin our thoughts to where we are like sheep to slaughter . Yeah they even have a judas goat ! Or several .

A perfect example is how these clever people convinced some very stupid people to stay home because the republican convention dissed Ron Paul . Does any Calgunner believe that tactic was not designed by billionaire democrats ? Those 3 or 4 million who stayed home, reelected Obama .

Until we realise that ANY anti gun media is untrustworthy and solidly democrat partisan we will continue to vote away our rights and prosperity too.

Another example are the people who said Romney signed a assault weapon ban ! Where did these ignoramus's get that idea ?
Of course some anti gun newspaper ! Jim Wallace of GOAL, said " it was the best progun legislation in his lifetime " or something like that . Yet these gunowners are so stupid, they parrot the exact words of anti gun media people . Those of us who listen to NRA news heard Jim Wallace and other state reps who follow legislation with a bias to further rights .

Will someone please tell me why we should believe or even listen to an anti gunner ?

[CZ man in LA]

A low republican turnout is a direct result of gun owners failing to realise that the anti gun media sources they honor with their listening,viewing and reading is entirely to blame .

The democrat Hollywood controlled media juggeraugt is much more intelligent than we are . They twist and spin our thoughts to where we are like sheep to slaughter . Yeah they even have a judas goat ! Or several .

A perfect example is how these clever people convinced some very stupid people to stay home because the republican convention dissed Ron Paul . Does any Calgunner believe that tactic was not designed by billionaire democrats ? Those 3 or 4 million who stayed home, reelected Obama .

Until we realise that ANY anti gun media is untrustworthy and solidly democrat partisan we will continue to vote away our rights and prosperity too.

Alternatively, you can become a billionaire yourself and create your own pro-2A media platform to go against the Democrat establishment.

If entreprenuers like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg can become instant billionaires in their 20s starting out of garage, what were you doing for the past decades?

[ja308]

Alternatively, you can become a billionaire yourself and create your own pro-2A media platform to go against the Democrat establishment.

If entreprenuers like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg can become instant billionaires in their 20s starting out of garage, what were you doing for the past decades?

I considered the idea, but then realised many of you democrat/ libertarian types, would consider my efforts as self serving. Rather than my intention of promoting low energy costs, gun rights, solid money, low taxes and making America a place where the worlds wealthiest want to invest and begin new business's .

Here's what people with that ideology got in return .

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/14/lawmakers-say-irs-targeted-dozens-more-conservative-groups-than-initially/

[e90bmw]

Your 1st link
COINTELPRO The FBI began COINTELPRO—short for Counterintelligence Program—in 1956 to disrupt the activities of the Communist Party of the United States. In the 1960s, it was expanded to include a number of other domestic groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan, the Socialist Workers Party, and the Black Panther Party. All COINTELPRO operations were ended in 1971. Although limited in scope (about two-tenths of one percent of the FBI’s workload over a 15-year period), COINTELPRO was later rightfully criticized by Congress and the American people for abridging first amendment rights and for other reasons.

Sorry I really don't believe communist and socialist have the right to overthrow our constitutional govt . Using the very freedoms designed for free people .
Communist and left leaning govts have murdered over 70 million of their own people for politics ! Compare that with the little piddling examples you provided ,
wwwjpfo.org

So these fine upstanding black panthers with their motto of kill the pigs had no animosity toward white people ? They further had the only good pig is a dead pig mantra .
Calgunners need not speculate on how well those tactics would work in any Marxist country, like Cuba, El Salvador, China or Russia?
But the FBI infiltrates and watches them and Calgunners such as yourself turn them into choir boys . Are you also critising the FBI for watching the KKK ?

I don't about other Calgunners, but it would appear watching this film that these people are a threat to everyone who holds a job .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HSlpRp4wLCw

Looks to me that the knockout game and black riots against whites is just a continuation of what the BP advocated in this film from 68

Actually to be clear a Democratic Republic or Democracy *ARE* the only forms of government that can basically shoot themselves in the head and become communist if the people vote for it and support it.

Piddling examples??
Oh I'm sorry, the systematic extermination of the Native American is piddling?
Atrocities against the Vietnamese? Oh, they weren't "our people".
The Japanese internment camps?
Eugenics and associated policies of the U.S. at the turn of the 20th Century.
The systematic sterilization of the mentally handicapped, female inmates and poor women.
Human experimentation that would make a Nazi blush?

You don't get to dismiss our horrible behavior by introducing the bad behavior of other governments. I don't live in Communist China so telling me they kill their people does nothing to justify the killing of our people by our government.

And yes, I do have a problem with the government infiltrating the Communist party and yes, even the KKK as long as the organizations are carrying out constitutionally guaranteed activities. When the government involves itself in dangerous and illegal behavior, then the government is no better than the people they seek to jail for crimes.

While I don't believe in what the KKK has to say, I do believe and will march for their 1A to say it. I'm no hypocrite. The KKK should be able to get a parade permit just like anyone else, including the Communists, Marxist and anyone else as long as they don't incite a riot or harm people in the process of exercising their 1A.

You maybe though I had a different perspective? You see, I understand the dangers of oppressing the voice no matter how distasteful it is. One day my voice may be the minority and if I don't stand for them, there won't be anyone to stand for my rights.

Anyway the whole discussion was about Mulford and why it was enacted. It wasn't to start a debate on why the FBI was a bunch of above the law a-holes when the view ran counter to popular political views.

You keep wanting to drag the argument to the BPP and the Knock Out Game and two are not related.
Black folks riots and animosity toward white folks? Tell me you, you really want to go there when in this country we had city charters that barred black folks from buying property. When we had laws of "separate but equal". We had apartheid in the form of "Jim Crow" and "The Black Codes". Where up until the 1970's killing a black man by a white man in this country rarely led to jail time. Where a black man could by lynched in most state east of Rockies just for looking at a white woman. Where raping of black girls was seen as a game by white men in the south.

You really, really want to go there??? Let's not. You seem to forget that this country has a nasty past and history we are still trying to grow up from.
Trying to blame the animosity in race relations on black folks alone is simplistic at best.

So to end the discussion.
The Mulford Act was in direct response to a march on Sacramento by a bunch of scary black men with guns. Nothing more than that.

Now I'm done, really done and moving on.

[CZ man in LA]

I considered the idea, but then realised many of you democrat/ libertarian types, would consider my efforts as self serving. Rather than my intention of promoting low energy costs, gun rights, solid money, low taxes and making America a place where the worlds wealthiest want to invest and begin new business's .

Wait, that doesn't make sense.

If you really believe what you say and want to spread your ideals, who cares what others think about you? Are you afraid of being judged or labeled by others?

Surely the Dems don't give a squat how they are judged or labeled when it comes to higher taxes, bigger gov't and being anti-2A. So they keep rolling along with supporters and billions of dollars in support.

But all you do is rant here on Calguns and your views are increasingly becoming disturbing and disconnected with reality. You believe only what you want to believe, you disregard everything else that you don't want to believe, yet you do nothing about then creating your own media stream to spread your "truth" that you want to spread.

How is that going to change anything? You ranting here isn't going to change unless you do something about it. Calgun members are active on the Calguns Facebook page, helping out/sponsoring shooting events, writing about 2A issues on blogs, and even starting their own gun businesses. So what are you going to do?

Or, is what you said just all baloney and the real truth being "I don't want to do it because instead of making money and spending my time creating my own media empire, I'd rather use the money to buy ammo and go spend my time target shooting and ranting on Calguns and shaking my fists at all the libtards and Dems, remembering the good old days of 1950s/1960s California as I slowly head to the sunset of my life. Let someone else do it."

If that's the core, you will only become a dustbin of history.

[ja308]

Wait, that doesn't make sense.

If you really believe what you say and want to spread your ideals, who cares what others think about you? Are you afraid of being judged by others?

Surely the Dems don't care what we think or how they are judged when it comes to higher taxes, bigger gov't and being anti-2A. So they keep rolling along with supporters and billions of dollars in support.

But all you do is rant here on Calguns. How is that going to change anything? You ranting here isn't going to change unless you do something about it.

Or, is what you said just all baloney and the real truth being "I don't want to do it because instead of making money and creating my own media empire, I'd rather use the money to buy ammo and go spend my time target shooting. Let someone else do it."

Have I convinced you to identify yourself as a republican ?

[curtisfong]

"Identifying" with any partisan group is idiotic.

Vote for whoever you choose, but I will never "identify" with any party, period.