Anti-gun meeting, Mountain View City Hall 2/8/2014 9:30 AM

[njineermike]

While your statement, as written, is correct, it is misleading. While we can't expect every gun in every household to be locked up at all times, we should expect every gun that is not held ready for self defense to be locked up. A typical household that owns guns has way more than one gun (the statistics for that are calculable from known data), and most of these guns are not useful for nor intended for self defense. And we can expect all guns to be locked up when they are unattended (for example when there is nobody at home, except for the burglar who just entered the unoccupied residence), because there is no chance that they will be used for self defense.

My real point, however, is the following. We don't need to start quibbling about the details of the statements you made here, in this thread. That would only derail this discussion. But gun rights advocates have to be very careful to not make statements that can be falsified or quibbled with, when trying to educate or debate gun control advocates.

My firearms haven't yet jumped up and shot anybody, so there does not appear to be a need to have them locked up.

[curtisfong]

Should there be a law requiring me to not leave the keys in the ignition of my car, arguably a much more dangerous weapon vs unarmed people.

[njineermike]

Should there be a law requiring me to not leave the keys in the ignition of my car, arguably a much more dangerous weapon vs unarmed people.

I think the better analog would be requiring you to put a club on your steering wheel anytime you're not driving.

[YubaRiver]

That statement can be falsified by looking at the statistics of how many gun purchases are denied.


While your statement, as written, is correct, it is misleading. While we can't expect every gun in every household to be locked up at all times, we should expect every gun that is not held ready for self defense to be locked up. A typical household that owns guns has way more than one gun (the statistics for that are calculable from known data), and most of these guns are not useful for nor intended for self defense. And we can expect all guns to be locked up when they are unattended (for example when there is nobody at home, except for the burglar who just entered the unoccupied residence), because there is no chance that they will be used for self defense.

My real point, however, is the following. We don't need to start quibbling about the details of the statements you made here, in this thread. That would only derail this discussion. But gun rights advocates have to be very careful to not make statements that can be falsified or quibbled with, when trying to educate or debate gun control advocates.

No chance? If a stalker followed my mom home and she just beats him inside, I would want my her to be able to grab my (trap gun, deer rifle, SASS revolver etc) if nothing else is at hand. Same for the 410 when a raccoon is in the chickens.

[njineermike]

No chance? If a stalker followed my mom home and she just beats him inside, I would want my her to be able to grab my (trap gun, deer rifle, SASS revolver etc) if nothing else is around. Same for the 410 when a raccoon is in the chickens.

Forgot about livestock protection. We always slept with loaded shotguns under the bed in case the feral dog packs got in the goats. But for some, the only exposure they have to firearms involves nice, neat paper targets at a shooting range, and the concept that others might be using the firearms for things they never thought of is simply beyond their comprehension.

[YubaRiver]

This argument about storage reminds me of the cultural rule differences of two northern native tribes and dogs and harnesses. To have the sled dogs eat the harnesses was bad, to loose the ability to travel could be deadly.

In one group it was the responsibility of the dog owners to always keep their dogs chained. Then they couldn't get at the harnesses.

In the other it was the responsibility of the sled owner to keep the harness stored where no dogs could get at it.

[YubaRiver]

Forgot about livestock protection. We always slept with loaded shotguns under the bed in case the feral dog packs got in the goats. But for some, the only exposure they have to firearms involves nice, neat paper targets at a shooting range, and the concept that others might be using the firearms for things they never thought of is simply beyond their comprehension.

Yup. My mom took after a bear with her deer rifle that had chased me into the trailer one summer at a forest service ranger station where my dad worked. That bear had been paying way too much attention to my 3 year old sisters and I.

She said bear fat made the best pastry shortening.

Course when that happened in Tahoe, there were death threats and public protests against a young dad who defended his infant child against a bear.

[AceGirlsHusband]

Should there be a law requiring me to not leave the keys in the ignition of my car, arguably a much more dangerous weapon vs unarmed people.

Or, perhaps, a smart-car ignition system which will ONLY recognize you as the driver... and then turn itself off while you're doing 65 mph down I-5.

[AJAX22]

Could always make a craigslist ad for a different type of social/mixer in the same time at the same place.....

[jcwillis]

Grew up during a time when the car and front door could be left unlocked.
Today, times are completely different.
Everyone should have freedom to keep their things as they see fit.
A gun safe should not be a government requirement, but a common sense requirement.
Especially for these time.
Sometimes laws are made to force common sense on those who have none.

[YubaRiver]

Grew up during a time when the car and front door could be left unlocked.
Today, times are completely different.
Everyone should have freedom to keep their things as they see fit.
A gun safe should not be a government requirement, but a common sense requirement.
Especially for these time.
Sometimes laws are made to force common sense on those who have none.

I prefer changing hearts, not laws.

[IVC]

That statement can be falsified by looking at the statistics of how many gun purchases are denied.

We need to concentrate on *prosecutions+convictions* not simple *denials*. Only "prosecution with conviction" proves that the background check has "stopped a criminal."

[IVC]

Or, perhaps, a smart-car ignition system which will ONLY recognize you as the driver... and then turn itself off while you're doing 65 mph down I-5.

A smart-car counterpart of smart-gun would be blocking your steering wheel and disabling brakes. Turning itself off is benign compared to the consequences of a failure of smart-gun technology in a critical situation.

[IVC]

My real point, however, is the following. We don't need to start quibbling about the details of the statements you made here, in this thread. That would only derail this discussion. But gun rights advocates have to be very careful to not make statements that can be falsified or quibbled with, when trying to educate or debate gun control advocates.

For once we are in agreement.

I would add, though, that we have to steer the discussion into framework of civil rights and make sure anti gun lobby understands that "permissible regulation" is not arbitrary - instead, it's subject to well defined, rational and measurable legal definitions that are no different than when trying to put restriction on *any other* civil right.

We are fighting antis' *method* much more than their *message*.

[Gemini Effect]

http://neworganizing.com/profile/Josh-Wolf

Here is the 'project organizer'.

While he claims to fight for 'equal human rights', apparently, he has yet to make the connection between equality and the tools of force that Sam Colt made to ensure all people are equal. This may be an important theme to counter his desire for disarmament.

This guy's profile is laughable. He got a degree playing the trumpet?

How to fight back against the zombie apocalypse: Mobilize fellow members to wage war and defeat the zombies? How do you do that when you wish to further disarm people?

Campaign that changed his life: Hilary Clinton for President?

Is this a joke? Trolling?