SB-374 Definitions Observed

[madgame]

I have read the new SB-374 a number of times, and it seems to me the new regulation relies heavily on two (2) new definitions of "Detachable and Fixed Magazines"

From the Billthe device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.

Here-in lies my question/observation...Isn't the Magazine Spring a necessary component of the semi-automatic action? Without the spring, is the semi-automatic "action" still functional? I would submit that the Magazine Spring is an active participant in cycling the rifle and manipulating the cartridges. So, if you were to remove the Magazine Spring (or the Magazine which contains it), haven't you successfully disassembled the semi-automatic "action"? The rifle certainly won't cycle without it?

There are other parts of the AR-15 I could remove, and the semi-automatic "action" would still be functional, (sights, accessories, butt-stock), but the Magazine Spring? No.

It would seem to me that ANY standard AR-15 would still fit the definition of Fixed Magazine because of its reliance on the term "action", regardless of a CA Bullet Button being installed.

Comments please.

[monk]

As far as I know the magazine isn't part of the action. More to the point, I'm not sure where you get that they're talking about magazine components. They're talking about magazines themselves.

"device cannot be removed..."

A spring is not a device in so far as I know, it's a component of a device.

In before Librarian.

[madgame]

The term "action" doesn't refer to a specific part or component. The "action" is a number of parts that work together to perform a function. If you disable that function, then you can argue it's been disassembled. I didn't say the magazine is part of the action, I said the magazine spring is.

It's sort of a chicken-and-the-egg problem. By removing the device [magazine], you have disassembled the action. Thereby, meeting the definition of a Fixed Magazine.

[JDay]

Good luck arguing that in court.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4

[madgame]

I think it's more ironic than anything. In the course of over-regulating, they may have actually made the definition of fixed magazine weaker by defining it poorly.

[monk]

The term "action" doesn't refer to a specific part or component. The "action" is a number of parts that work together to perform a function. If you disable that function, then you can argue it's been disassembled. I didn't say the magazine is part of the action, I said the magazine spring is.

It's sort of a chicken-and-the-egg problem. By removing the device [magazine], you have disassembled the action. Thereby, meeting the definition of a Fixed Magazine.

You're grasping at straws. Simple question: can you fire an ar without a magazine?

[madgame]

Sure, but I would say that referring a bullet as a "tool" (for the CA Bullet Button) is grasping at straws even more so.

Bolt action, Hinge Action, Semi-Automatic Action - they all refer to cycling the rifle after firing.

[BoxesOfLiberty]

You're grasping at straws. Simple question: can you fire an ar without a magazine?

Is an AR "semi-automatic" without a magazine?

[kf6tac]

Sure, but I would say that referring a bullet as a "tool" (for the CA Bullet Button) is grasping at straws even more so.

Bolt action, Hinge Action, Semi-Automatic Action - they all refer to cycling the rifle after firing.

The difference being that defining a bullet as a "tool" was explicitly written into the implementing regulation. In the absence of that, it may well have gone the other way for the bullet button.

[GM4spd]

Is an AR "semi-automatic" without a magazine?

More "straws". Pete

[Seaweed02]

What can be done?

What can be done about it? That is what I want to know. I mean I am not going to want to register my firearms, but it looks like I am going to have to. All of my AR's and AK's along with every single hand gun that I own fits in those descriptions.

But what can we do about this? Is any organization taking legal action? Law suits or Supreme Court actions?

[koehn,jim]

What can be done is to contact the Governor and ask him to veto the bill, and in the next election work against the fools that voted for it. Every member of the blog should be a contributor to the CGN and the Nra. They are preparing a legal challenge to this bill in case it is signed. Quit thinking about ways around it and fight it head on.

[sl0re10]

Is an AR "semi-automatic" without a magazine?

ummm, no

I was just watching someone shoot 90gn bullets and they had to load each by hand since they wouldn't fit the magazine.

[Milsurp Collector]

Every member of the blog should be a contributor to the CGN and the Nra. They are preparing a legal challenge to this bill in case it is signed.

CGN (Calguns Network) owns this web site and is involved in community outreach but is not directly involved in litigation.

Over the course of the last two years the proceeds from the CGN Contributorships have been used to fund and expand the community outreach programs and grassroots 2nd Amendment activities of the Calguns C3 chapters and volunteers. In order to better support and protect the volunteers and the community the Calguns C3 has been formally incorporated and filed with the IRS as a 501(c)4 non-profit, The Calguns Shooting Sports Association or CGSSA. CGSSA is all volunteer from the President down to the guy helping to pick up trash at a BLM range (often times they are the same person!) and both positions are equally important. This means ALL of the funds from Contributorships will go to events for the community, shooting outreach such as Women on Target, community service efforts such as range clean ups on public land and of course grassroots 2nd Amendment political efforts.

It is not the same as the CGF (Calguns Foundation) that sponsors legal challenges to laws.

Please note that CGN and CGSSA are separate from CGF and that CGN/CGSSA Contributorships are not tax-deductible.

If you want to contribute to the legal challenges you should (also) contribute to the CGF. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=108030

[monk]

Is an AR "semi-automatic" without a magazine?

We're not arguing that. We're arguing whether or not the magazine, and magazine spring by relation, be part of the action. Manipulation or activation of the action causes the firearm to go boom. You can still fire an AR without the magazine. Therefore, it is not part of the action.

Removing the magazine does not suddenly make a gun a single shot gun, just an unloaded one.