Pistol grip attached to magazine?

[mud99]

I have an idea regarding featureless rifles which I'd like to get an opinion on.

For simplicity, lets assume I have a standard mini-14, and a 10 round detachable magazine.

If I attach a functionally useless pistol grip to the bottom plate of the detachable magazine, and insert the magazine into the mini-14, have I created an assault weapon?

Is the magazine considered part of the gun for California AWB purposes?

[Anchors]

I have an idea regarding featureless rifles which I'd like to get an opinion on.

For simplicity, lets assume I have a standard mini-14, and a 10 round detachable magazine.

If I attach a functionally useless pistol grip to the bottom plate of the detachable magazine, and insert the magazine into the mini-14, have I created an assault weapon?

Is the magazine considered part of the gun for California AWB purposes?

IMO, it would be too close for comfort. Why risk it when the DOJ rarely issues written opinions/clarification on things like that (unlike the ATF who will give you an answer on federal laws).
I wouldn't mess with it, personally.

[mud99]

So if that was the case, wouldn't a 30 round magazine create a "forward pistol grip"?

[Carnivore]

So if that was the case, wouldn't a 30 round magazine create a "forward pistol grip"?

I think the argument would be with the Mag in the well feeding ammo info the gun it is a magazine even if you grip it as a pistol grip, if it just mounted to the forward end of the gun then it is a pistol grip as it can't feed ammo into the weapon in that position. Either way you would be a test case that could go either way so why do it.

[Fate]

If I attach a functionally useless pistol grip to the bottom plate of the detachable magazine, and insert the magazine into the mini-14, have I created an assault weapon?

Yes, if there is a grip forward of the trigger.

(c) "forward pistol grip" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp forward of the trigger.

(d) "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing.

So if that was the case, wouldn't a 30 round magazine create a "forward pistol grip"?

No, in the rulemaking documents a magazine is specifically named as something that cannot be a forward pistol grip.

Page 28, Attachment B
978.20(c) Forward Pistol Grip
Comment:
B3.26 1 The revised regulation incorporates a new undefined term 'pistol style grasp'. There are five 'protrusions' commonly found on semiautomatic centerfire rifles that are designed to 'grasp' the firearm. However, none of them can be plausibly thought of as a forward pistol grip. They are: a forward hand guard; a protruding detachable magazine; a hand stop; a sling swivel and sling; and a bipod.


Response:
The Department agrees with the comment. The revised definition specifies a forward pistol grip must be a grip, in addition to having the capacity to be grasped. Because the five protrusions identified in the comment are not grips, they would not meet the Department's definition of a forward pistol grip. The Department believes that reasonable people would not consider the items identified in the comment forward pistol grips.

[Agro]

I just had a stupid thought.

If you removed the magazine catch so that if you inserted a magazine, it would simply fall out. Could you then claim that it isnt a "detachable ammunition feeding device" since it was never "attached" to the weapon to begin with? You remove your hand and the magazine falls out.

Not to say this is effective use of the firearm or magazine, perhaps too close for comfort, really asking for it, eh?

[Sir Stunna Lot]

I just had a stupid thought.

If you removed the magazine catch so that if you inserted a magazine, it would simply fall out. Could you then claim that it isnt a "detachable ammunition feeding device" since it was never "attached" to the weapon to begin with? You remove your hand and the magazine falls out.

Not to say this is effective use of the firearm or magazine, perhaps too close for comfort, really asking for it, eh?

Read and re-read this line properly and understand its implications:

"forward pistol grip means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp forward of the trigger."

As in your scenario, the law doesnt discriminate or even mention anything about being "attahced" like you worded it. They intentionally left the law vague enough so that they dont get into the specifics. But as you read the line, if you are able to handle the rifle with a "pistol style grasp forward of the trigger", regardless of how it is "attached" to the gun, you have satisfied the penal code and created an assault weapon. Its a very simple law, worded very precisely.

[Fate]

I just had a stupid thought.

If you removed the magazine catch so that if you inserted a magazine, it would simply fall out. Could you then claim that it isnt a "detachable ammunition feeding device" since it was never "attached" to the weapon to begin with? You remove your hand and the magazine falls out.

Not to say this is effective use of the firearm or magazine, perhaps too close for comfort, really asking for it, eh?

The above, bad idea, has been kicked around since at least 2005. bwiese is fond of stating that you'll get charged for an AW with a broken part, which is still an AW.

Don't play stupid games and you won't win stupid prizes.

[Cobrafreak]

Just wait till you move away or CA turns around to do what you want. No worth the risk of your own personnel 2A rights.

[Harrison_Bergeron]

This is an interesting topic.

What I am envisioning is something like a MAC or Uzi with a means of holding the mag inside the receiver or on the trigger guard or something. A long gun with nothing to grip extending below the receiver except for the magazine.

[kotetu]

The above, bad idea, has been kicked around since at least 2005. bwiese is fond of stating that you'll get charged for an AW with a broken part, which is still an AW.

Don't play stupid games and you won't win stupid prizes.

I remember reading about a fellow who was charged with illegal possession of a class 3 (machine gun) when his semi-auto rifle malfunctioned and fired 2 or 3 rounds very fast.