National Gun ID

[fortdick]

A friend and I have discussed the gun control issue ad nauseum. He had proposed a national gun license/ID thing. He is as strong a Second Amendment supporter as any I know. Does his idea have any merit?

Why not establish a national gun owner registry that permits people to receive an identification card to be used to buy and sell guns. Anyone can apply, free of charge, for a gun owner I.D., and the FBI could perform background checks on each applicant. Once cleared, the individual may take their I.D. to any gun shop and purchase a firearm with no waiting period. The only responsibility the dealer would have is to verify the I.D.

Set a standard of what may preclude an individual from owning a gun and provide an appeal process for those denied. Individuals convicted of a felony or hospitalized for mental health reasons may have their I.D. revoked via due process.

This is a simple process that would reduce the illegal sales of firearms, free dealers of the background requirements and waiting periods and free legitimate gun owners of the hassles of buying a firearm.

[tcrpe]

[nothinghere2c]

we already have a national ID. Its called a drivers license or some other proof of who you are. No other bloated system is needed.

[donny douchebag]

Because once cleared people will never do anything bad.

[Hoooper]

is this supposed to be required for any purchase, or just if you want to? Kind of like the "CLEAR" line that they tried to do at the airport? You would be optionally registering in order to not have to wait, and if you dont want to register you just go through what we go through now.

[odysseus]

What you discussed here conflicts with Constitutional Rights. The 2A is not a privilege, subject to requirements of people having to become registered by the governmental and permitted to then only be allowed to practice what is a free right to bear arms. It is the same as speech, and the freedom to practice religion.

Your "Set a standard of what may preclude an individual from owning a gun" is outright unconstitutional. You can't "preclude" people from an inalienable right. They must commit a crime and be ruled in court on this, or be ruled mentally unfit by a Judge. It is abhorrent to think people go around thinking we should just have rules that preclude away rights of citizens.

We already have established background checks for felons. The same prohibitions are made for those declared mentally unfit.

Nothing you wrote here would prevent a criminal intent on criminal behavior from illegally obtaining a weapon and using it. Like in Newtown, the criminal stole the weapons from his mother, whom also paid a price by being killed for that too. So fundamentally what is all that you wrote trying to accomplish?

A friend and I have discussed the gun control issue ad nauseum. He had proposed a national gun license/ID thing. He is as strong a Second Amendment supporter as any I know. Does his idea have any merit?

Why not establish a national gun owner registry that permits people to receive an identification card to be used to buy and sell guns. Anyone can apply, free of charge, for a gun owner I.D., and the FBI could perform background checks on each applicant. Once cleared, the individual may take their I.D. to any gun shop and purchase a firearm with no waiting period. The only responsibility the dealer would have is to verify the I.D.

Set a standard of what may preclude an individual from owning a gun and provide an appeal process for those denied. Individuals convicted of a felony or hospitalized for mental health reasons may have their I.D. revoked via due process.

This is a simple process that would reduce the illegal sales of firearms, free dealers of the background requirements and waiting periods and free legitimate gun owners of the hassles of buying a firearm.

[fortdick]

is this supposed to be required for any purchase, or just if you want to? Kind of like the "CLEAR" line that they tried to do at the airport? You would be optionally registering in order to not have to wait, and if you dont want to register you just go through what we go through now.

That is a good idea. Make it voluntary.

They already know who owns guns, so what is the harm in getting an ID that pure learns your background check?

[fortdick]

is this supposed to be required for any purchase, or just if you want to? Kind of like the "CLEAR" line that they tried to do at the airport? You would be optionally registering in order to not have to wait, and if you dont want to register you just go through what we go through now.

That is a good idea. Make it voluntary.

They already know who owns guns, so what is the harm in getting an ID that pre-clears your background check?

[Wiz-of-Awd]

...You can't "preclude" people from an inalienable right. They must commit a crime and be ruled in court on this, or be ruled mentally unfit by a Judge. It is abhorrent to think people go around thinking we should just have rules that preclude away rights of citizens...

This is interesting actually.

If we look up the meaning and definition of inalienable right, we might find that not even this should preclude such rights from an individual.

A.W.D.

[odysseus]

There is no doubt that even those provisions mentioned are not without debate as well for sure, at the very least in lifetime revoke and how they are administered. I agree.

If we look up the meaning and definition of inalienable right, we might find that not even this should preclude such rights from an individual.

[drdarrin@sbcglobal.net]

That is a good idea. Make it voluntary.

They already know who owns guns, so what is the harm in getting an ID that pre-clears your background check?

Tell me again why I should be pre cleared in order to exercise my rights? Imagine the same restriction on the 1a?

How many of your rights are you willing to give up so that ignorant people are no longer afraid of you?

[mrdd]

That is a good idea. Make it voluntary.

They already know who owns guns, so what is the harm in getting an ID that pre-clears your background check?

The federal government does not know who owns guns. There is no federal database of gun owners.

[robcoe]

I had a similar idea, but different in a few key ways

In mine

Require firearms training for everybody, not just gun owners, not just people looking to own guns, everyone, only exemption is for people who for health reasons physically cannot complete the course. Make it similar to jury duty, because the right to a trial of your peers is guaranteed in the constitution everybody is required to serve on a jury when called, whether they ever have been on trial or ever expect to be on trial or not. A similar requirement to make the 2nd amendment work could be justified.

When the training starts they run an instant background check, during the training everybody is required to meet the same standards, if a practical portion is included a gun and ammo will be provided, if you don't pass you keep coming back until you pass(again, similar to jury duty, you keep coming back until you're done). At the conclusion of training you receive a national firearms card which certifies you can purchase and possess a gun, and also serves as a national voter ID card. From then until your next session you can buy firearms with no waiting period and nothing else required except showing the seller your card.

The reason I suggest making it a universal requirement instead of what most people suggest which is making it targeted at just gun owners and people looking to become gun owners is simple, if the targeted kind of training went through you would have a situation like DC, where while it is POSSIBLE to get a gun, the fees and requirements are so difficult and convoluted that it is for all practical purposes a ban. Basically people like Frankenfeinstein would make the requirements so tough for training that special forces soldiers wouldn't be able to pass. Also, this way they wouldn't have a list that would let them say "these people own guns, search their houses".

I am sure there are problems with this idea, but I see it as better than targeted training, ID cards and tests for JUST gun owners, and bans.

As an auxiliary benefit, a lot of people who would have been anti-gun simply because they had never had experience with them and have been told they are bad would have first hand experience, which I have found converts about 30-40% of them.

[stix213]

Make it also a national CCW and I'm on board.

[odysseus]

I am sure there are problems with this idea, but I see it as better than targeted training, ID cards and tests for JUST gun owners, and bans.

Yes, bad problems. Again you are requiring government permit and testing to practice what is an inalienable right. That would be like requiring basic grammar and logic testing to permit your right to free speech. Or a basic government test and permit so that you may practice your religion and open for public gatherings. Yeah, we can all joke about that - but no, bad idea.

The problem with inalienable rights, is a lot of people don't like other people being free to practice it. It scares a lot of people, erroneously.

And again, since all of this is being brought up due to the horrible and exceptional high crime we saw in Newtown - how would any of what you wrote protect against that (as so many politicians are trying to sell their infringement ideas on)?

It wouldn't. That's what. So what is the goal here? Why this discussion about this need?