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  • bwiese
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Oct 2005
    • 27621

    SAF statement on Moore vs. Madigan victory...

    I'll let Brandon post official commentary but this extract has the key info.

    I will note that the specific wording is HUGE on clarifying 'bear'. Sure, it's logical to all of us here, but to use Heller and go straight back to plain wording is exactly what we want.

    Will the immediate derived implementation of carry be perfect in IL?
    Probably not. Will future litigation be required? Probably, but this sets the ball rolling.

    The crowbar is in the doorjamb and the door just busted wide open.

    THIS. IS. BIG.

    Yes, WE ARE ALL WINNING. Regardless of nitpicking & yapping on forums


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "...a ruling in the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals that declares the right to self-defense is "broader than the right to have a gun in one's home."

    The case of Moore v. Madigan, with Judge Richard Posner writing for the majority, gives the Illinois legislature 180 days to "craft a new gun law that will impose reasonable limitations, consistent with the public safety and the Second Amendment on the carrying of guns in public."

    "We are very happy with Judge Posner's majority opinion," said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. "This is a victory for Illinois citizens who have been long denied a right recognized in the other 49 states; to have the means necessary for self-defense outside the home.

    "In the broader sense," he added, "this ruling affirms that the right to keep and bear arms, itself, extends beyond the boundary of one's front door. This is a huge victory for the Second Amendment."

    "The Second Amendment," Judge Posner writes, "states in its entirety that a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.' The right to bear' as distinct from the right to keep' arms is unlikely to refer to the home. To speak of bearing' arms within one's home would at all times have been an awkward usage. A right to bear arms thus implies a right to carry a loaded gun outside the home."

    Later, Judge Posner adds, "To confine the right to be armed to the home is to divorce the Second Amendment from the right of self-defense described in Heller and McDonald."

    "That the court will give Illinois lawmakers six months to craft a law allowing carry outside the home recognizes that the right to bear arms means what it says," Gottlieb concluded. "The ball is now in the Legislature's court, and we eagerly wait to see how well they can live up to their responsibility."


    Bill Wiese
    San Jose, CA

    CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
    sigpic
    No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
    to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
    ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
    employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
    legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.
  • #2
    yellowfin
    Calguns Addict
    • Nov 2007
    • 8371

    Will the other side be stupid enough to appeal?
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things with insane laws. That's insane!" -- Penn Jillette
    Originally posted by indiandave
    In Pennsylvania Your permit to carry concealed is called a License to carry fire arms. Other states call it a CCW. In New Jersey it's called a crime.
    Discretionary Issue is the new Separate but Equal.

    Comment

    • #3
      Purple K
      CGN/CGSSA Contributor
      CGN ContributorCGN Contributor - Lifetime
      • Dec 2008
      • 3101

      Originally posted by yellowfin
      Will the other side be stupid enough to appeal?
      Hopefully!
      sigpic

      Comment

      • #4
        OleCuss
        Calguns Addict
        • Jun 2009
        • 8102

        Originally posted by yellowfin
        Will the other side be stupid enough to appeal?
        One can only hope!

        But more likely they will take the 6 months to craft utterly insane legislation to effectively outlaw carry while officially allowing it. Then it will take a series of court actions to fix it.

        But IIRC, this is the State rather than the city. I don't think the state is quite as nutty as Chicago.
        CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that).

        Comment

        • #5
          dave_cg
          Member
          • Feb 2012
          • 289

          Originally posted by OleCuss
          But IIRC, this is the State rather than the city. I don't think the state is quite as nutty as Chicago.
          I can't claim to have any understanding of IL politics, but I suspect this will set up a lot of urban v. rural log rolling.
          == The price of freedom is eternal litigation. ==

          Comment

          • #6
            Casual_Shooter
            Ban Hammer Avoidance Team
            CGN Contributor - Lifetime
            • Sep 2006
            • 11733

            The part I liked the best...

            A right to bear arms thus implies a right to carry a loaded gun outside the home."
            (emphasis mine)

            It would seem to limit their inevitable restrictions.
            Guns, dogs and home alarms. Opponents are all of a sudden advocates once their personal space is violated.

            "Those who cannot remember the posts are condemned to repeat them"



            Why is it all the funny stuff happens to comedians?

            Comment

            • #7
              mag360
              Calguns Addict
              • Jun 2009
              • 5198

              Yes... They have to! Think of the children!!
              just happy to be here. I like talking about better ways to protect ourselves.

              Shop at AMAZON to help Calguns Foundation

              CRPA Life Member. Click here to Join.

              NRA Member JOIN HERE/

              Comment

              • #8
                Dark Paladin
                學者, 羇客, 神戰士
                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                • Sep 2008
                • 1531

                Congrats to the parties that made this happen. Definitely a step in the right direction.

                On a more realistic note, I forsee certain parts of the IL legislature attempting to pull shenanigans to circumvent the meaning of the ruling.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Powerkraut
                  Member
                  • Jul 2012
                  • 367

                  Whatever hoops the IL legislature tries to make people jump through, Bweise is correct in pointing out that the crystal-clear verbage in this decision is probably the biggest victory.
                  Rebel born, Rebel bred. When they lay me down I'll be a Rebel dead.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    speedrrracer
                    Veteran Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3355

                    Originally posted by OleCuss

                    But IIRC, this is the State rather than the city. I don't think the state is quite as nutty as Chicago.
                    ^^ This

                    IIRC, the State legislature is wildly different from Chicago...not sure how any resulting law will shake out, but at least they're on their way.

                    Will the 9th be at all influenced by this decision as they ponder Peruta, etc?

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      morrcarr67
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 14957

                      Originally posted by Powerkraut
                      Whatever hoops the IL legislature tries to make people jump through, Bweise is correct in pointing out that the crystal-clear verbage in this decision is probably the biggest victory.
                      You got that right.
                      Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

                      Originally posted by Erion929

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        unusedusername
                        Veteran Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 4124



                        My understanding is that this will force the supremes to hear the issue once another circuit decided that the right does not exist outside the home, correct?

                        This could be big news for California in a few years...

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          bwiese
                          I need a LIFE!!
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 27621

                          Everything has changed today ;-)

                          The Bradys were always saying that Heller was 'just about home' even though the decision merely said "...most notably in the home..." and in no way was restriction, just an emphasis.

                          This has been a complete refutation.

                          There will either be "compliance" in other courts or circuit splits.

                          Circuit splits go up to the Supremes that wrote Heller and McDonald.

                          The language here is POWERFUL as it used Heller to support essentially a language based approach on 'bear' being equalized to 'keep'.... and then added statement after statement after statement of emphasis on this.

                          Bill Wiese
                          San Jose, CA

                          CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
                          sigpic
                          No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
                          to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
                          ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
                          employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
                          legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            HowardW56
                            Calguns Addict
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 5901

                            Originally posted by yellowfin
                            Will the other side be stupid enough to appeal?
                            They may......
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              1BigPea
                              Senior Member
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 1102

                              Originally posted by bwiese
                              Everything has changed today ;-)

                              The Bradys were always saying that Heller was 'just about home' even though the decision merely said "...most notably in the home..." and in no way was restriction, just an emphasis.

                              This has been a complete refutation.

                              There will either be "compliance" in other courts or circuit splits.

                              Circuit splits go up to the Supremes that wrote Heller and McDonald.

                              The language here is POWERFUL as it used Heller to support essentially a language based approach on 'bear' being equalized to 'keep'.... and then added statement after statement after statement of emphasis on this.
                              This is awesome!!
                              Originally Posted by Wherryj
                              I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?

                              Comment

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