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There are 60,000 handguns & 2,400 Assault Rifles in San Francisco

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  • mecam
    Veteran Member
    • Jun 2007
    • 4049

    There are 60,000 handguns & 2,400 Assault Rifles in San Francisco



    Proliferation of guns blamed for epidemic of violence in S.F.
    C.W. Nevius

    Thursday, January 17, 2008

    A lot has changed since San Francisco police Lt. John Murphy started working the drug and homicide beats in the 1980s.

    "In the '80s, we'd get one, two or three guns a week," Murphy said. "Now it's like - who doesn't have one?"

    Just about everyone, it seems. Kevin Ryan, the former U.S. attorney who worked on federal law enforcement for the Bush administration, recently joined the staff of San Francisco Gavin Newsom as director of the Office of Criminal Justice. He says the sheer numbers are shocking.

    "There are 60,000 handguns in San Francisco," Ryan said. "And 2,400 assault rifles. There are a lot of guns out there."

    You're reading that right. SIXTY THOUSAND guns in a population of less than 745,000 in a geographical area of 49 square miles. That's a gun in every five households, or one for every 12th man, woman or child.

    And Ryan says confrontations are going nuclear almost immediately. "Instead of a fistfight, a dispute is elevated to a shooting at the drop of a hat."

    You can pick your example, but for a clear case of mindless, senseless gunplay, it is hard to beat the incident at the downtown Metreon shopping mall in November, when a 15-year-old boy shot an 18-year-old three times after an argument over moving too slowly on the escalator. The victim was pronounced dead at San Francisco General Hospital 30 minutes later.

    "It's sad," says Murphy. "He's 15 years old. How could you be that mad at that age?"

    And what was a 15-year-old boy doing with a gun? Where do these guns come from?

    Most San Franciscans might initially conclude that the city needs stronger gun laws. But Dr. Garen Wintemute, director of UC Davis' Violence Prevention Research Program, says, "In San Francisco, it is actually very difficult to legally buy a handgun."

    But it's a different story outside city limits. Guns are flooding into town from out-of-state gun shows, like the one next month in Reno, where background checks and waiting periods are not required. Another common tactic is a "straw purchase," where someone without a criminal record legally buys weapons and then resells them for cash. Murphy says one individual bought 62 guns in one year.

    "We have numerous cases," said San Francisco District Attorney Kamala Harris, "where someone buys legally, then drives a truck or SUV into the Bayview neighborhood, opens up the trunk and has a fire sale."

    One thing is certain: Gun violence has local residents calling for action. After posting the highest homicide total in 12 years in 2007 (89), 2008 got off to a gruesome start with six deaths in the first two weeks - including a 19-year-old who was shot in the heart while sitting on porch steps chatting with his girlfriend.

    "It's tragic and a source of frustration to everybody," said Harris. "They're people, human beings, and they've got lives."

    Guns are also political dynamite. Newsom hired heavy-hitter Ryan to address persistent questions about the climbing homicide rate, and Harris made gun violence a centerpiece of her inaugural speech Jan. 8. And some don't want to touch it. Newly confirmed Northern California U.S. Attorney Joe Russoniello, who started work Jan. 7, was "not available" for a comment on the topic. His spokesman Josh Eaton said, "We recognize that this is an important issue. Accordingly, we will continue to work closely with federal and local authorities to address the problem."

    So are there any suggestions? Actually there are, although the solution begins by understanding the motivation of the shooters.

    "Since the mid-'80s," says Wintemute, "the illicit drug trade has armed itself with progressively more lethal weapons. If you live in that environment, you'd be foolish not to carry a gun. It's essential business equipment these days."

    You might have guessed that. But what you might not know is that a very small number of shooters are causing a large number of the incidents. SFPD's Murphy says at one point his group was able to identify and remove 12 bad actors from a neighborhood and "we didn't have a shooting for seven months."

    Wintemute says that approach is a big part of the "Boston Miracle," a gun violence program that dramatically reduced homicides in that city in the '90s.

    "They called in the gang leadership," Wintemute said, "and they told them, 'We know who you are, and we know most of you are on probation. If you don't knock it off, you're going to see probation enforcement like you've never seen before.' "

    Wintemute says the Boston police concentrated on nailing the slow learners who ignored the warnings, even if it was for jaywalking, to get them out of the area. The results were dramatic. (Unfortunately, Boston's homicide rate has climbed again after funding cuts and staffing problems.)

    Still, it's an idea. In the coming weeks, everyone from Harris and Ryan to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco and Explosives is promising dramatic new initiatives. They've gotten the memo. This is a topic that has the city's attention.

    "It is a perception of safety and violence," said Ryan. "Do the citizens of San Francisco feel safe? I think there is a lot of anxiety out there."

    Who knows, in a week or so, maybe even U.S. Attorney Russoniello will chime in.

    C.W. Nevius' column appears Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. E-mail him at cwnevius@sfchronicle.com.

    This article appeared on page B - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle
    Last edited by mecam; 01-17-2008, 11:26 AM.
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  • #2
    Soldier415
    Calguns Addict
    • Feb 2007
    • 9537

    SF Board of Supervisors recommendation for defending your home...

    Originally posted by harmoniums
    Absolutely, I've refused sale before.
    My gut is good for two things, making poo and spotting crazy
    Originally posted by bwiese
    Do not get your legal advice from Forest Rangers or Sheriffs: that's like getting medical advice from your plumber.

    Comment

    • #3
      Harbinger
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2005
      • 1152

      LOL, I'd LOVE to hear how they came up with those numbers.

      Plus, I really want to know how you can just drive over to Reno and 'pick up a gun'.

      Mike


      Join the NRA!!

      Comment

      • #4
        USN CHIEF
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Nov 2007
        • 11540

        It sounds like the need more guns and AW's there...
        Originally posted by tankerman
        I think most folks bubba their AR's because they watch too many action movies, play too many video games and don't understand how to socialize properly, so they fantasize about being 'action hero's'. Kind of like little girls playing dress-up.
        Originally posted by Douglas711
        Is everybody stocking up on guys now? Just curious some gun prices seem to be getting high.

        Comment

        • #5
          peepshowal
          Member
          • Jan 2006
          • 382

          Hey Soldier, what kind of bait does the Board of Supervisors recommend to use in that trap?

          Comment

          • #6
            Socal858
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2006
            • 2177

            lets blame an inanimate object because they dont fight back !!! much easier than solving real problems! lets kick back now and enjoy our secure .gov jobs, phew

            Comment

            • #7
              Soldier415
              Calguns Addict
              • Feb 2007
              • 9537

              Originally posted by peepshowal
              Hey Soldier, what kind of bait does the Board of Supervisors recommend to use in that trap?
              Considering it is SF, they recommend using Kool-Aid, fine cheeses (goes great with the whine), or any video made by Michael Moore.

              The above are irresistable to (The majority of) SF residents
              Originally posted by harmoniums
              Absolutely, I've refused sale before.
              My gut is good for two things, making poo and spotting crazy
              Originally posted by bwiese
              Do not get your legal advice from Forest Rangers or Sheriffs: that's like getting medical advice from your plumber.

              Comment

              • #8
                tombinghamthegreat
                Veteran Member
                • May 2007
                • 2785

                Only 60,000 guns and 2,400 rifles? Even if that is accurate that number is sadly low.
                "Legitimate use of violence can only be that which is required in self-defense." Ron Paul
                "The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite." - Thomas Jefferson
                Originally posted by forumguy
                The same way they enforce all the rest of the BS laws. Only criminals are exempt, while the honest obey.
                Originally posted by bwiese
                Sometimes I think the function of Calguns is half to refute bad info from gunshops and half to refute bad info from DOJ.

                Comment

                • #9
                  dfletcher
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 14772

                  Aside from the "OMIGOD lots of guns" (fewer than 10% is not very high and in any other state those AWs would be just plain old guns) not a bad article in that it states what the problem is (felons & bad guys with illegal guns) and (almost) how to solve it - throw them in jail. They've even admitted to knowing who many of the culprits are.

                  I think the most glaring inaccuracy is that it's hard to buy a gun in SF but it's not hard outside of SF - it's hard to buy a gun in CA, not just SF.
                  GOA Member & SAF Life Member

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Hopi
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Oct 2005
                    • 7700

                    This gives me hope.....
                    So are there any suggestions? Actually there are, although the solution begins by understanding the motivation of the shooters.

                    "Since the mid-'80s," says Wintemute, "the illicit drug trade has armed itself with progressively more lethal weapons. If you live in that environment, you'd be foolish not to carry a gun. It's essential business equipment these days."

                    You might have guessed that. But what you might not know is that a very small number of shooters are causing a large number of the incidents. SFPD's Murphy says at one point his group was able to identify and remove 12 bad actors from a neighborhood and "we didn't have a shooting for seven months."
                    and then

                    it's an idea. In the coming weeks, everyone from Harris and Ryan to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms, Tobacco and Explosives is promising dramatic new initiatives. They've gotten the memo. This is a topic that has the city's attention.

                    If you don't knock it off, you're going to see probation enforcement like you've never seen before.'
                    Perhaps Harris and the rest will start to explore realistic fact-based crime prevention measures. And maybe they will start punishing criminals?

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      DedEye
                      Calguns Addict
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 8655

                      Originally posted by Soldier415
                      SF Board of Supervisors recommendation for defending your home...

                      The best part of that is that it's actually more illegal than a gun .

                      It's always annoying when someone (the article's author) with no clue about gun laws tries to write about them.
                      These posts are Fiction. They do not contain legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. Any resemblance to real persons are pure coincidence. These posts may pose an inhalation hazard, reading can be harmful or fatal. No statements made on this forum are meant to represent any corporate or business entity, others, or myself. Especially not myself.

                      Stop duping answers, help expand the FAQ.

                      Why yes, that is me in my avatar and yes, I AM wearing a life jacket.

                      WTS Keltec P11

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Librarian
                        Admin and Poltergeist
                        CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                        • Oct 2005
                        • 44626

                        CW answers polite email. He's checking to find out how Ryan 'knows' how many guns there are.
                        ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

                        Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          FreshTapCoke
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 879

                          Originally posted by Hopi
                          This gives me hope.....
                          And maybe they will start punishing criminals?
                          Good lord I almost wet my pants when I read that part of the article. "When we started prosecuting criminals for the crimes they commit, we saw crime go down."
                          Originally posted by Noble Cause
                          Can you imagine Patrick Henry, the "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death" guy, in today's world, whining about "not joining the NRA because of junk mail" ?!

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            chris
                            I need a LIFE!!
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 19447

                            Originally posted by peepshowal
                            Hey Soldier, what kind of bait does the Board of Supervisors recommend to use in that trap?
                            may i answer. i think money and valuable objects and an unlocked door maybe good bait. results may vary as the game you are after may react to different types of bait. it is always a good idea to camoflauge your trap.
                            http://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
                            sigpic
                            Thank your neighbor and fellow gun owners for passing Prop 63. For that gun control is a winning legislative agenda.
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6Dj8tdSC1A
                            contact the governor
                            https://govnews.ca.gov/gov39mail/mail.php
                            In Memory of Spc Torres May 5th 2006 al-Hillah, Iraq. I will miss you my friend.
                            NRA Life Member.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              cartman
                              Member
                              • Feb 2007
                              • 467

                              I think those numbers are just a count of one of our members collections
                              Mayor Adrian M. Fenty (D) announced. The risk here is that an appeal could lead to an unfavorable Supreme Court ruling, and a legal principle that now applies only to the residents of the nation's capital would extend to the entire nation

                              Comment

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