Odd legal question on # of guns you can build from scratch

[morrcarr67]

I recall a DOJ letter from Alison Merrilees back in 2006, in which she stated an individual could not 'manufacture' more than 5 firearms a year without a CA mfg license.

There are a bunch of different letters in this PDF file.

But, the letter you are talking about is on the first page.

The statement you are talking about is the last sentence in the 2nd to last paragraph.

http://gunwiki.net/pub/Gunwiki/HistoryOLL/letters060220.PDF

[mrdd]

And where in the law does it say that? I think she made it up. The state relies on federal law to a large extent. The PC only says:

CHAPTER 1. License Requirement for Manufacture of Firearms [29010. - 29010.] ( Chapter 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

29010. (a) Commencing July 1, 1999, no person, firm, or corporation licensed to manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code may manufacture firearms within this state unless that person, firm, or corporation is licensed pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29030).
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person licensed to manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code who manufactures fewer than 100 firearms in a calendar year within this state.
(c) If a person, firm, or corporation required to be licensed pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29030) ceases operations, then the records required pursuant to Section 29130 and subdivision (b) of Section 29115 shall be forwarded to the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives within three days of the closure of business.
(d) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

This says that you are only required to have a state license IF you have a federal license AND you manufacture 100 or more per calendar year.

[morrcarr67]

And where in the law does it say that? I think she made it up. The state relies on federal law to a large extent. The PC only says:



This says that you are only required to have a state license IF you have a federal license AND you manufacture 100 or more per calendar year.

Is that state code you have listed?

Rember state code can be stricter than federal code.

Just look at CA gun laws.

[mrdd]

That's Federal code. What does CA code say?

Rember state code can be stricter than federal code.

Just look at CA gun laws.

No, that is the California Penal Code. My point is that they don't even require a license unless you meet the stated requirements.

[morrcarr67]

No, that is the California Penal Code. My point is that they don't even require a license unless you meet the stated requirements.

Cool. Looks like some more undergound regulations they're trying to push.

[mrdd]

Cool. Looks like some more undergound regulations they're trying to push.

Remember, this was the gang under Lockyer. Jerry Brown did a lot of housecleaning when he became AG.

[morrcarr67]

Remember, this was the gang under Lockyer. Jerry Brown did a lot of housecleaning when he became AG.

Hopefully you are correct.

[RickD427]

Cool. Looks like some more undergound regulations they're trying to push.

Gents,

I'm not so sure that Ms. Merrilees is in error here. Her correspondence addressing the 5 firearms per year is several years old.

IANAL, but did do some research prior to my earlier postings in this, and in the preceding thread, on the subject. California's "Zip Gun" statute is the only governing law that I was able to locate. It "borrows" from the federal law (26 USC 4181) to define persons exempt from licensure requirements based on the number of items manufactured per year. The statute currently sets that number at fifty (50).

One poster in the previous thread recalled that section having been amended, and the number having been much lower in the previous law. I also have to think that the authors of the "Zip Gun" statute would never have passed it if 50 weapons/year could be lawfully manufactured.

I don't have the resources to research archived versions of the US Code (Librarian - Can you help?).

My "street sense" is that the federal law read five (5) items in a prior version.

[mrdd]

The prior version of the federal statute did not have any limit. The fewer than 50 exemption was added by Public Law 109-59 (2005).

I still think the referenced letter from the CA DOJ made it up.

PART 5--SPORT EXCISE TAXES

SEC. 11131. CUSTOM GUNSMITHS.

(a) Small Manufacturers Exempt From Firearms Excise Tax.--Section
4182 (relating to exemptions) is amended by redesignating subsection (c)
as subsection (d) and by inserting after subsection (b) the following
new subsection:
``(c) Small Manufacturers, Etc.--
``(1) In general.--The tax imposed by section 4181 shall not
apply to any pistol, revolver, or firearm described in such
section if manufactured, produced, or imported by a person who
manufactures, produces, and imports less than an aggregate of 50
of such articles during the calendar year.
``(2) Controlled groups.--All persons treated as a single
employer for purposes of subsection (a) or (b) of section 52
shall be treated as one person for purposes of paragraph (1).''.

(b) <<NOTE: 26 USC 4182 note.>> Effective Date.--
(1) In general.--The amendments made by this section shall
apply to articles sold by the manufacturer, producer, or
importer after September 30, 2005.
(2) No inference.--Nothing in the amendments made by this
section shall be construed to create any inference with respect
to the proper tax treatment of any sales before the effective
date of such amendments.

[RickD427]

The prior version of the federal statute did not have any limit. The fewer than 50 exemption was added by Public Law 109-59 (2005).

I still think the referenced letter from the CA DOJ made it up.

mrdd,

Thanks for the research and the clarification. Looks like the 5 per year in Ms. Merrilees' letter is still unresolved.................

[Jason_2111]

Update: I brought this up with my attorney yesterday. He located the law mentioning "5 per year", but that was specifically addressing Pistols and not Rifles. He will research this and get back to me.
He did urge caution though, when it comes do doing 80% completions for pistols. The problem there is the Unsafe Handgun Act (California silly Roster). The law stating 5 pistols per year max actually pre-dates the roster law... so the roster is the one to look out for.

Doing a build into an SSE pistol is one thing... then converting it to normal is entirely another if you're not an 07 FFL. (I was advised against doing so)

Just sharing what I was told. More updates as info comes in.

[Jason_2111]

I should be a little more clear... the problem with doing pistol builds isn't the federal law, it's the state law.

[CHS]

I should be a little more clear... the problem with doing pistol builds isn't the federal law, it's the state law.

No one has ever claimed otherwise.

It's a misdemeanor in CA to manufacture an "unsafe" handgun. You can, however, manufacture an exempt handgun, and then modify it at a later point into the "unsafe" form.

[mrdd]

Update: I brought this up with my attorney yesterday. He located the law mentioning "5 per year", but that was specifically addressing Pistols and not Rifles. He will research this and get back to me.

I'm waiting for the cite on this. The penal code does define 5 or less per calendar year as "infrequent", applying to certain specific acts involving handguns without a license:

1) It applies to the number of loans.

2) It applies to the number of transfer transactions.

It does not apply to manufacturing!

All the PC says about manufacturing is that you must have a state license if the following applies:

You have a federal manufacturing license.

AND

You manufacture 100 or more items per calendar year.

That's all.