Hi Cap Mag Possession

[Fjold]

...We're not stuck with low-cap magazines. The real question is, why do so many people keep on insisting that high capacity magazines are banned when we have no laws regulating their sale of possession?

I thought that we had laws regulating their sale but not their purchase or possession.

[Rob P.]

I thought that we had laws regulating their sale but not their purchase or possession.

This is the crux of the situation. IIRC there is someone on this forum who is preparing the way to sell high capacity magazines. I don't know the status on that but am interested in getting some extra factory standard magazines for my PRE BAN double stack pistols if this person finally gets it together with the DOJ and BATF. I need 2.

The "high cap" vs. "standard cap" argument is worthless. "High capacity" is a legal term of art and has meaning and legal weight. "Standard capacity" means nothing.

[bwiese]

The "high cap" vs. "standard cap" argument is worthless. "High capacity" is a legal term of art and has meaning and legal weight. "Standard capacity" means nothing.

Correct. We need to think of practicalities here

Our own side indeed also has its own near-religious 'political correctness' for some things - and someone's going to use these terms, and then someone else will misunderstand, and get in trouble.

Our terminology needs to have a common frame of reference in relation to laws on the books. When we get these idiot laws off the books, only then should we start worrying about redefining terminology - otherwise it's just academic.

[BillCA]

Let's review: In California, you can not

1. Manufacture
2. Cause to be manufactured
3. Import into the state
4. Keep for sale
5. Offer or expose for sale
6. Give to another
7. Lend to another

Any high-capacity magazine.

Items 1-3 are designed to choke off the supply of hi-cap magazines available in the state. You can't make them or cause someone else to make them (contract or agreement to make them). You cannot import the magazines into the state either.

If you have a boatload of high-capacity magazines, you cannot advertise that you have them available for sale(5) or display them in a way that might indicate they were for sale. Nor may you keep (possess) for the just purpose of selling them(4). You can't give 'em away or lend them to your buddies either.

IIRC there is someone on this forum who is preparing the way to sell high capacity magazines. I don't know the status on that but am interested in getting some extra factory standard magazines for my PRE BAN double stack pistols if this person finally gets it together with the DOJ and BATF. I need 2.

This will be interesting. I would presume that he will be required to obtain a state permit to sell them. Otherwise he'll be testing the phrase "keep for sale".

Since "keep for sale" is not specifically defined in the CPC (that I could find) that means it is open to interpretation by those 58 DA's. Any DA could argue that having dozens of such magazines, for different guns, which you are selling in small lots constitutes "keeping for sale". I would presume that a DA would be required to prove beyond a doubt that your intent was to have them for sale, such as an agent asking if the seller could get him a hi-cap magazine not in the seller's inventory.

Again, the way I read this is that if you were selling a gun via a PPT and showed your buyer a box full of hicap magazines that you wanted to sell, it would be illegal (item #5). However, if the buyer instead asks if you have any hi-cap magazines then offers to buy one or more of them, this would not be illegal. There is no "conspiracy" charge here either since no law is being broken (the act of selling is not illegal, nor is inquiring or offering-to-buy illegal, just exposing or offering for sale).

[Rob P.]

This will be interesting. I would presume that he will be required to obtain a state permit to sell them. Otherwise he'll be testing the phrase "keep for sale".

IIRC it's a matter of exemption to the statute. Like the example of the armored car business idea. They can legally sell "surplus" high capacity magazines. The person I'm thinking of is NOT this example.

I'm waiting patiently (sort of) for this to get off the ground.

[Ak47owner]

what about inheritaning hi caps

[Matt C]

what about inheritaning hi caps

Nope, not allowed.

[Ak47owner]

Nope, not allowed.

that is a good thing to add to this conversation

[robairto]

My take

My safe is full of high caps I bought back in the day. Many are unused Colt ar15 mags;;(for my Bushy, registered)AK 47 mags including drums (reg. Maadi) I Bought hi caps for guns I didn't even own and still don't own the guns. I'm not going to worry about it although this state has aspects about it that make me want to leave and firearms issues are one of them.

[hoffmang]

The armored car exemption is this:

Penal Code 12020

(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

(27) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this
state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine, to or by
entities that operate armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws
of this state.

There are some specific Heller related timing issues driving when an armored vehicle business begins selling large-capacity magazines.

-Gene

[Ech0Sierra]

It'd lead some people to think that some armored car bosses would sell some spare magazines at work. Maybe they could run an "importation" business.

[Wulf]

Are "armored" and "armored vehicle business" defined in the law, or is it one of those conspicuously protruding type of deals?

[Matt C]

Are "armored" and "armored vehicle business" defined in the law, or is it one of those conspicuously protruding type of deals?

It's defined, BSIS regulates it.

[hoffmang]

"armored vehicle businesses" is not specifically defined but is legally well defined if you can catch the difference. An armored vehicle businesses looking to exercise their privileges under the Penal Code should have a history of operation or be very precise, methodical, and complete in having the correct corporate structure, assets (read an armored car), individual licenses, and CHP permits first.

This is not something to be done lightly.

-Gene

[Soldier415]

STOP CALLING THEM "HI-CAPS'@!!!!!!

THEY ARE F**&% STANDARD CAPACITY MAGAZINES.

aything less should be referred to as NEUTERED MAGS, not anything more referred to as high capacity.