Hi Cap Mag Possession

[hoffmang]

STOP CALLING THEM "HI-CAPS'@!!!!!!

THEY ARE F**&% STANDARD CAPACITY MAGAZINES.

There is no such thing as a "standard capacity magazine" or a "high capacity magazine." Both of those terms mean nothing.

Large-capacity magazine is a defined term under California law. I suggest we only use it because the law is there meaning we have to and look forward to the day when magazine capacity is referred to as a number for the buyers information.

-Gene

[.22guy]

Nope, not allowed.

You really don't think so? I'm far from an expert, but if someone leaves their mags behind when they die and you find them, how are they going to charge you or the deceased? I don't think I would put it in the will or anything.

[Matt C]

You really don't think so? I'm far from an expert, but if someone leaves their mags behind when they die and you find them, how are they going to charge you or the deceased? I don't think I would put it in the will or anything.

Good point.

[hoffmang]

Transfer of possession by inheritance is likely "giving" which is banned. I assume the law would be enforced against the executor of the estate but that little wrinkle has never been completely clear to me.

-Gene

[Matt C]

huh. I've always wondered about this one myself. Let's say that while you're on your deathbed, you give your son a stockpile of large cap magazines. Since the "giver" of the magazines is the only one breaking the law, you would be the only one who can be punished. Of course, being dead puts you beyond the revenge of the state. I'm going out on a limb here, but I guessing no DA has ever filed charges against a dead man. I'd like to see them try though. ha ha ha... so Mr XXX, how do you plead?

Yeah, but there is still the criminal conspiracy bit.

[BlackReef]

Alright, I have read most of this thread, and I have to propose this question:

If a 23 year old male for example is at the range with his featureless build, and he is using 30 RD MAGPUL Magazines, would that be crossing the line of common sense even if he used magpul parts to rebuild his steel pre-bans? (Lets say he could NOT prove that he rebuilt his pre-bans, theoretically)

Please advise

-Joe

[Matt C]

Alright, I have read most of this thread, and I have to propose this question:

If a 23 year old male for example is at the range with his featureless build, and he is using 30 RD MAGPUL Magazines, would that be crossing the line of common sense even if he used magpul parts to rebuild his steel pre-bans? (Lets say he could NOT prove that he rebuilt his pre-bans, theoretically)

Please advise

-Joe

I don't think so.

[SteveH]

Alright, I have read most of this thread, and I have to propose this question:

If a 23 year old male for example is at the range with his featureless build, and he is using 30 RD MAGPUL Magazines, would that be crossing the line of common sense even if he used magpul parts to rebuild his steel pre-bans? (Lets say he could NOT prove that he rebuilt his pre-bans, theoretically)

Please advise

-Joe

Since the PMAG uses a standard 30-round USGI magazine spring, he could claim the PMAG was a repaired grandfathered magazine. Now if the cops asked him where did you get the cool new 07/07 marked PMAG and he said "I bought it in vegas" he's probably in trouble.

[E Pluribus Unum]

I guess the issue would be in 30-40 years... people who were born AFTER Jan 01 2000 would have an issue claiming they posessed it before that time...


Even then, selling and or giving would be a crime... if the lender or giftor were dead, the crime would not be chargable unless new guy implicates himself on conspiracy.

[sierratangofoxtrotunion]

Let's review: In California, you can not

1. Manufacture
2. Cause to be manufactured
3. Import into the state
4. Keep for sale
5. Offer or expose for sale
6. Give to another
7. Lend to another

Any high-capacity magazine.

Items 1-3 are designed to choke off the supply of hi-cap magazines available in the state. You can't make them or cause someone else to make them (contract or agreement to make them). You cannot import the magazines into the state either.

If you have a boatload of high-capacity magazines, you cannot advertise that you have them available for sale(5) or display them in a way that might indicate they were for sale. Nor may you keep (possess) for the just purpose of selling them(4). You can't give 'em away or lend them to your buddies either.



This will be interesting. I would presume that he will be required to obtain a state permit to sell them. Otherwise he'll be testing the phrase "keep for sale".

Since "keep for sale" is not specifically defined in the CPC (that I could find) that means it is open to interpretation by those 58 DA's. Any DA could argue that having dozens of such magazines, for different guns, which you are selling in small lots constitutes "keeping for sale". I would presume that a DA would be required to prove beyond a doubt that your intent was to have them for sale, such as an agent asking if the seller could get him a hi-cap magazine not in the seller's inventory.

Again, the way I read this is that if you were selling a gun via a PPT and showed your buyer a box full of hicap magazines that you wanted to sell, it would be illegal (item #5). However, if the buyer instead asks if you have any hi-cap magazines then offers to buy one or more of them, this would not be illegal. There is no "conspiracy" charge here either since no law is being broken (the act of selling is not illegal, nor is inquiring or offering-to-buy illegal, just exposing or offering for sale).

Scenario: A guy possesses a 30-rd AR mag. Preban, Postban, Pmag, whatever. It's his own personal one that he uses, he's not in the business of selling things, and doesn't have this mag in order to sell it. A guy asks him: "can I buy a 30-rd AR mag?" Answer: "Yes." They exchange goods and cash.

A friend of mine is going to school to be a prosecutor. He believes that answering in the affirmative to the question of if one is willing to sell it violates 5) Offer or expose for sale, or at least that the DA would rip the guy and the theory to shreds. To me, #5 means putting it out on the table at a garage sale with a price tag on it, or in the glass case at a gun store, or something like that. I'm leaning more towards your interpretation.

Thoughts?

[sierratangofoxtrotunion]

huh. I've always wondered about this one myself. Let's say that while you're on your deathbed, you give your son a stockpile of large cap magazines. Since the "giver" of the magazines is the only one breaking the law, you would be the only one who can be punished. Of course, being dead puts you beyond the revenge of the state. I'm going out on a limb here, but I guessing no DA has ever filed charges against a dead man. I'd like to see them try though. ha ha ha... so Mr XXX, how do you plead?

I heart your logic.

[randy]

I didn't come up with this but it sounds interesting.

Lets say you bought mags after the ban and had a receipt for them in 2001.

Is there a time frame for prosecution? If there is would it be past now? And if so would the mags be legal?

Remember I didn't make this up it was just something we kicked around at the range one night.

[bohoki]

I didn't come up with this but it sounds interesting.

Lets say you bought mags after the ban and had a receipt for them in 2001.

Is there a time frame for prosecution? If there is would it be past now? And if so would the mags be legal?

Remember I didn't make this up it was just something we kicked around at the range one night.

hmm the only way i see to buy hi-caps would be from a diplomat with diplomatic immunity

of course maybe you could buy some off of annonymous migrant workers heck they cant even get deported think they would be charged?

[drclark]

This came up half jokingly in the hello-kitty AR thread but suppose you marry someone who is already in possession of "large capacity magazines" or can legally import large cap magazines. At that point, don't any existing magazines and any future acquired magazines become community property? If you later get divorced aren't you entitled to half of said magazines?

Also, what is the legal definition of importation? Does money have to be exchanged? To me, import implies that the receiver is involved in arranging the transfer from the sender. I.e. I place an order online and send payment in exchange for incomming goods and services from out of state. Or, I actively bring the goods into the state by buying magazines in NV, loading them in my truck and driving across the stateline.

Lets say that there is a good samaritan in Arkansas that randomly picks an address and mails a large-cap mag once a month. If this samaritan randomly selected and mailed a large cap mag to you, would that "reception" of the mag be considered an imporation? Or would it be "giving"; and, since the giver is out of state, could they be prosecuted under CA law? In that scenario, I would assume that the shipping service would be immune to prosecution.

just some thought questions to ponder....
drc

[383green]

This came up half jokingly in the hello-kitty AR thread but suppose you marry someone who is already in possession of "large capacity magazines" or can legally import large cap magazines. At that point, don't any existing magazines and any future acquired magazines become community property? If you later get divorced aren't you entitled to half of said magazines?

This is a very interesting and insightful thing to ponder. I wonder if I would feel secure enough about my manhood to want half of her pink Hello Kitty magazines?

Lets say that there is a good samaritan in Arkansas that randomly picks an address and mails a large-cap mag once a month. If this samaritan randomly selected and mailed a large cap mag to you, would that "reception" of the mag be considered an imporation?

I would hate to need to convince a jury of the existence of such a person who randomly mails 30 rounders to random people, and just happened to randomly select the address of somebody with a gun to match those magazines out of all of the people in CA. While I'd love to believe that such wonderful things could happen, I'd also like to believe that there's some statistically significant chance on my daily commute that a convertible full of girls gone wild will flash me on my way to work. Doesn't happen too often, though.