Sacramento LTC holders: No carry signs now listed on LTC?

[locosway]

What's the difference?

A license gives you permission to do something, where a permit regulates safety.

[Sgt. K]

Just got mine in the mail Saturday. It only has the 'while consuming alcohol or remaining at an establishment that primarily serves alcohol' restriction printed on it.

[Lone_Gunman]

So it's not confirmed, and isn't on the most recently issued LTC's. Can we change the title of the thread or lock it 'till we get confirmation? Otherwise this is just more FUD.

[jb7706]

So it's not confirmed, and isn't on the most recently issued LTC's. Can we change the title of the thread or lock it 'till we get confirmation? Otherwise this is just more FUD.

One of the guys I work with is going in tomorrow to get his initial issuance appointment done. I'll see a brand new license in just a couple of weeks.

[halifax]

Just got mine in the mail Saturday. It only has the 'while consuming alcohol or remaining at an establishment that primarily serves alcohol' restriction printed on it.

Can someone clarify this for me please. Remaining after what?

[randian]

Can someone clarify this for me please. Remaining after what?

Looks like it's intended to forbid staying at a bar even if you aren't drinking.

[jb7706]

Can someone clarify this for me please. Remaining after what?

My rule of thumb:

If you have to be 21 to enter then it's best to avoid the establishment. It's fine to go in and pick up your buddy that drank too much, it's not OK to have a beer or soda with him before you drive him home.

[taperxz]

The whole idea of concealed, is that it can't be seen. Sooo... How would anyone know if you are concealing?

You would also have to have seen the sign and if in a situation when you would have to use the firearm legally, you can do so legally if your life is threatened.

What would have to happen here is, the proprietor would have to see the weapon and alert you of the sign and policy and then tell you to leave. If your refuse, LE could then check you for a weapon.

[kcbrown]

The whole idea of concealed, is that it can't be seen. Sooo... How would anyone know if you are concealing?

You would also have to have seen the sign and if in a situation when you would have to use the firearm legally, you can do so legally if your life is threatened.

What would have to happen here is, the proprietor would have to see the weapon and alert you of the sign and policy and then tell you to leave. If your refuse, LE could then check you for a weapon.

Isn't the danger greater than that? Can't the proprietor just report your transgression to the Sheriff and you'd then get your license yanked? After all, it's a discretionary-issue license. It's not like you have the right to keep and bear arms around here.


Also, what prevents the license from incorporating restrictions "by reference" as opposed to having them explicitly printed on the license itself?

[randian]

Also, what prevents the license from incorporating restrictions "by reference" as opposed to having them explicitly printed on the license itself?

That would imply they could change the restrictions on existing licenses any time they want without notice just by updating a website. I don't know if that comports with state law and it would certainly piss off LTC holders.

[Librarian]

Also, what prevents the license from incorporating restrictions "by reference" as opposed to having them explicitly printed on the license itself?

As already noted, Penal Code 26200 (b).

[kcbrown]

As already noted, Penal Code 26200 (b).

I'm not convinced that a court won't consider "indicated on any license issued" to be satisfied by a reference to a website or some other method of indirection.

Is there any caselaw around this that would bolster the view that this passage means what we believe it to mean?

[halifax]

Looks like it's intended to forbid staying at a bar even if you aren't drinking.

My rule of thumb:

If you have to be 21 to enter then it's best to avoid the establishment. It's fine to go in and pick up your buddy that drank too much, it's not OK to have a beer or soda with him before you drive him home.

OK, but couldn't it mean "remaining" after last call also? I kid.

[Librarian]

I'm not convinced that a court won't consider "indicated on any license issued" to be satisfied by a reference to a website or some other method of indirection.

Is there any caselaw around this that would bolster the view that this passage means what we believe it to mean?

Are you aware of any that does NOT confirm that the plain language of the text is what is meant?

If you question that bit of 'black letter law', on what basis do you believe any of it?

I suggest there will be none either way - LTC law in CA is pretty new, as far as application, because up until now there have been so few out there.

[wildhawker]

I'm not convinced that a court won't consider "indicated on any license issued" to be satisfied by a reference to a website or some other method of indirection.

Is there any caselaw around this that would bolster the view that this passage means what we believe it to mean?

I'm not convinced that a court won't hold that Madonna really is like a virgin.

However, back over here where the jurisprudence sky is blue... the law says what it says. Rossow v. Sheriff Mark Pazin/Merced County or another case(s) we have coming will likely fix this issue in case law until The Bear can take another bite (if needed).

-Brandon