Complying with an e-check?

[mud99]

If an officer asks to see my firearms which are in a locked case, to see if they are loaded, to what extent do I need to comply?

-Can I simply say nothing?

-Can I inform him that I will not interfere with his check, but I will also not assist him with it either? (i.e. if he wants to see he will have to cut the locks off)

-Can I say that I don't remember the combination for the lock, or that I don't have the key, etc.?

Mandating that I perform a job for him such as removing a lock would appear to me to be involuntary servitude, and is only allowable by the government as punishment for a crime.

[glockman19]

If an officer asks to see my firearms which are in a locked case, to see if they are loaded, to what extent do I need to comply?

-Can I simply say nothing?
Yes, but don't interfere or obstruct him/her from the check
-Can I inform him that I will not interfere with his check, but I will also not assist him with it either? (i.e. if he wants to see he will have to cut the locks off)
Again, Yes but unnecessary. Shut up, present your locked case, offer to unlock and step aside.
-Can I say that I don't remember the combination for the lock, or that I don't have the key, etc.?
Stupid response, It will likely get your firearms confiscated and opened a the station.
Mandating that I perform a job for him such as removing a lock would appear to me to be involuntary servitude, and is only allowable by the government as punishment for a crime.

The officer has every right under the statute to open and check to see firearms are unloaded...that's it...nothing more...the end.

[Rossi357]

If an officer asks to see my firearms which are in a locked case, to see if they are loaded, to what extent do I need to comply?

How did the officer know there was a firearm in the locked case. If you told him/her, that was your first mistake.
If they ask you to open it, tell them you might be breaking the law by being in a GFSZ.

For myself.....
I would never answer if they asked if I had any firearms.
I wouldn't consent to any search or open any locked cases.

Don't talk to the police!!!

[scrat]

if the case is locked wouldnt they need a warrant or probable cause to open.

[emcon5]

What a difference an arbitrary line on a map makes.

I got pulled over in NV on my way to the Washoe County range north of Reno. Stack of gun cases in clear sight in the extra-cab area of my pickup.

I told him we were headed to the range, he asked "everything is in back?" and that was the end of it. Didn't even get a ticket.

[Connor P Price]

if the case is locked wouldnt they need a warrant or probable cause to open.

Not if they know there's a firearm in it. One would have to tell them that its there though, mere suspicion is not enough. 12031(e) is about as unconstitutional of a law as there ever was, but until its gone its still the law in CA.

[scrat]

WOW did not know

[Connor P Price]

Just so everybody knows whats being talked about...

12031(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for
the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized
to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.
Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to
this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of
this section.

[mud99]

Basically, to simplify the question, what does "Refusal" mean in the context of locked gun case?

I would like to not refuse the check but not assist with it either.

If I assist with the check I am potentially putting a bullseye on myself if the LEO thinks I am opening the case in an improper way, or brandishing a firearm in the process.

Also, I don't like my Prius driving neighbors knowing I have guns. If this was on a public street in front of my house, I would rather sit in the car while the officer did the search, rather than my neighbors seeing me playing with AR's on the tailgate of my pickup.

Or, perhaps my bullet button fell off in transport? Their are all sorts of reasons I would prefer that the check by more difficult for a LEO to complete.

[dantodd]

Basically, to simplify the question, what does "Refusal" mean in the context of locked gun case?

I would like to not refuse the check but not assist with it either.

If I assist with the check I am potentially putting a bullseye on myself if the LEO thinks I am opening the case in an improper way, or brandishing a firearm in the process.

Also, I don't like my Prius driving neighbors knowing I have guns. If this was on a public street in front of my house, I would rather sit in the car while the officer did the search, rather than my neighbors seeing me playing with AR's on the tailgate of my pickup.

Or, perhaps my bullet button fell off in transport? Their are all sorts of reasons I would prefer that the check by more difficult for a LEO to complete.

The officer will most likely not ask you to touch the gun during the e-check. Most likely he will ask you for the key. Read the description of the e-check in Richards/Haynie v. Harris. I have a feeling that the second e-check was done based on very specific legal advice by very good firearms lawyers.

[choprzrul]

If you keep your trap shut, how in the world would anyone know that there is a firearm inside a locked case?

The mere presence of a gun case is not enough to establish probable cause to initiate an e-check. You opening your mouth saying that you are on your way home from the range and have your guns locked up in back probably is enough.

So, shut up and stick to the exact reason the officer stopped you in the first place.

.

[GrizzlyGuy]

Basically, to simplify the question, what does "Refusal" mean in the context of locked gun case?

Just remain completely silent and do nothing. You aren't refusing anything nor are you resisting, you simply choose not to help them enter your case.

Don't resist them if they try to tear into your case. Like the Right People say, there is no better evidence in court than a locked gun case that officers have damaged or destroyed so as to get into it via a someday-to-be-ruled-unconstitutional law.

[stix213]

Don't lie to the police about your gun during an e-check. Either shut your mouth, or give up your rights by correctly answering the questions. One of the two.

[Librarian]

Just so everybody knows whats being talked about...

And, under the new numbering, that's 25850(b).

[tyrist]

Basically, to simplify the question, what does "Refusal" mean in the context of locked gun case?

I would like to not refuse the check but not assist with it either.

If I assist with the check I am potentially putting a bullseye on myself if the LEO thinks I am opening the case in an improper way, or brandishing a firearm in the process.

Also, I don't like my Prius driving neighbors knowing I have guns. If this was on a public street in front of my house, I would rather sit in the car while the officer did the search, rather than my neighbors seeing me playing with AR's on the tailgate of my pickup.

Or, perhaps my bullet button fell off in transport? Their are all sorts of reasons I would prefer that the check by more difficult for a LEO to complete.

If you refuse to open the case you will be refusing the e check and can be arrested.