Gov. Brown is no fool

[Jared1981]

;-)

I am smiling because I no longer have to speculate on things. Also, Jared - you seem like a nice guy - but please climb out of your mental dungeon.

You mistake cause and effect, and you seem to not understand how causes can have no effects, and effects can be without cause. You are also getting diverted by (and outlining) details that simply do not matter.

Which law school did you say you attended? They teach us a type of thinking that allows us to see through things, as you most certainly know.

;-)

On a more practical level, please reconsider your actions. You are now arguing with people who work with Gray on a daily basis. Is he the only person you know in CA?

Please do not tell me that the other person's name is Sam.

ROFL

You kind of sound like you are being fed talking points, and I know they are not coming from Gray. So, who is it?

OR, did you just make all of these things up in your head? Again, I know folks who know the Gov and work with his staff. I also know people here in Oaktown who knew him when he was here. Your speculation, namecalling, and somewhat wooden thinking is telling me that you talk more than you listen. The key here is to empty your head and listen. Right now, you have no room in your thinking for the useful information we are trying to impart to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know who Sam is, and you have yet to refute anything I said. I know Meg Whitman would have been worse but that does not make Brown pro-RKBA; maybe he's lukewarm to it, lukewarm does not mean friendly or reliable.

The core is that the governor is no friend of gun owners, if he was, then why don't you tell us since you apparently are on the "in". So why did things happen as they did?

Let me guess, it's either a secret or it's too complicated, right?

You say I do a lot of talking and a little listening; In 2 and a half years, I only posted 74 times, you posted over 10,000 times. It seems like you do a lot of the talking and I do a lot of the listening, I'm just not going to blindly follow you and donate money because we are all apparently too stupid to comprehend the grand plan.

Speaking of the grand plan, you should not try to assume so much about others and put them down, if it is acceptable for you to assume so much then would it not be rash for me to assume that you are a typical snot-nosed Californian who thinks they are better than the peasants from the other 49 states because our people as a whole are not as rich and pretty as you all are??? That would be rash for me to assume so it would be decent for you as someone in a leadership position in the California RKBA movement to perhaps answer these questions without being condescending.

[vincewarde]

I'm not sure our last governor knows what "strict scrutiny" means.

I'm sure Arnold doesn't.

BTW, my mistake. I intended to write "intermediate scrutiny". I have corrected it

[oaklander]

I don't know who Sam is, and you have yet to refute anything I said. I know Meg Whitman would have been worse but that does not make Brown pro-RKBA; maybe he's lukewarm to it, lukewarm does not mean friendly or reliable.

The core is that the governor is no friend of gun owners, if he was, then why don't you tell us since you apparently are on the "in". So why did things happen as they did?

Let me guess, it's either a secret or it's too complicated, right?

You say I do a lot of talking and a little listening; In 2 and a half years, I only posted 74 times, you posted over 10,000 times. It seems like you do a lot of the talking and I do a lot of the listening, I'm just not going to blindly follow you and donate money because we are all apparently too stupid to comprehend the grand plan.

Speaking of the grand plan, you should not try to assume so much about others and put them down, if it is acceptable for you to assume so much then would it not be rash for me to assume that you are a typical snot-nosed Californian who thinks they are better than the peasants from the other 49 states because our people as a whole are not as rich and pretty as you all are??? That would be rash for me to assume so it would be decent for you as someone in a leadership position in the California RKBA movement to perhaps answer these questions without being condescending.

Much anger, this one has.

Works out of hate, he does.



Seriously, dude - you are eating too many of those Subway Sandwiches or something! Everyone knows about my German Shephard, "Sam."

;-)

You are taking things too personally. We are all friends here. I would chat longer, but my private jet is waiting.

ETA: my wife just said that I was too mean to you. Sorry about that! I actually *do* like your new chipotle sauce!!!

Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

[Jared1981]

Much anger, this one has.

Works out of hate, he does.



Seriously, dude - you are eating too many of those Subway Sandwiches or something! Everyone knows about my German Shephard, "Sam."

;-)

You are taking things too personally. We are all friends here. I would chat longer, but my private jet is waiting.

ETA: my wife just said that I was too mean to you. Sorry about that! I actually *do* like your new chipotle sauce!!!

Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

I'm not mad or angry at all, I did not mean to come across that way. My statement about Californian's being snobby and uptight was meant to illustrate and compare how you were treating those questioning you.

BTW, Subway is ok.... I prefer Jersey Mike's or even Sheetz (Pennsylvania company).


That being said, how does long gun registration help us? Will you answer this question or not.

[oaklander]

I'm not mad or angry at all, I did not mean to come across that way. My statement about Californian's being snobby and uptight was meant to illustrate and compare how you were treating those questioning you.

BTW, Subway is ok.... I prefer Jersey Mike's or even Sheetz (Pennsylvania company).


That being said, how does long gun registration help us? Will you answer this question or not.

You are not reading between the lines, and you do not seem to understand that politics is people. You also seem to really want to argue with me. I do not set litigation strategy, and I do not even follow the litigation. I throw BBQ's.

I am nobody, and I am treating you with bemused interest, if I am treating you at all.

My true interest is in figuring out why you are in this thread. Are you volunteering to help us? Either "do" - or not "do."

I am not really here to answer your questions. I likely do not even know the answers. My sole message is simple:

"Brown is not opposition."

I simply do not care about you, as a person. Right now, you are pixels. And from what you have written, it appears to me that you are not useful to us. So, you will remain pixels.

ETA: Jared - seriously - if you actually want to help our team in CA, you will need to listen to the Elders. We can familiarize you with the landscape. But please do not even TRY to do anything here without working with us. We absolutely know what we are doing, and we are VERY good at it. We finally have ONE WINNING TEAM. And someone from out-of-state, even if well-meaning, like you are - well, you simply can't do anything here, and expect it to succeed.

You ABSOLUTELY need to work with a TEAM of local guides. Here, you are offending the very people who can, and WILL help you. ALL I need to know is why you are in this thread. At this point, I think your sole purpose is to destroy your reputation in our community here. If you continue to refuse our attempts to educate you, we will start to HAVE TO THINK THAT YOU ARE NOT RATIONAL.

Do you understand the dynamic now, Mr. Sandwich?

;-)

Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

[Jared1981]

You are not reading between the lines, and you do not seem to understand that politics is people. You also seem to really want to argue with me. I do not set litigation strategy, and I do not even follow the litigation. I throw BBQ's.

I am nobody, and I am treating you with bemused interest, if I am treating you at all.

My true interest is in figuring out why you are in this thread. Are you volunteering to help us? Either "do" - or not "do."

I am not really here to answer your questions. I likely do not even know the answers. My sole message is simple:

"Brown is not opposition."

I simply do not care about you, as a person. Right now, you are pixels. And from what you have written, it appears to me that you are not useful to us. So, you will remain pixels.

ETA: Jared - seriously - if you actually want to help our team in CA, you will need to listen to the Elders. We can familiarize you with the landscape. But please do not even TRY to do anything here without working with us. We absolutely know what we are doing, and we are VERY good at it. We finally have ONE WINNING TEAM. And someone from out-of-state, even if well-meaning, like you are - well, you simply can't do anything here, and expect it to succeed.

You ABSOLUTELY need to work with a TEAM of local guides. Here, you are offending the very people who can, and WILL help you. ALL I need to know is why you are in this thread. At this point, I think your sole purpose is to destroy your reputation in our community here. If you continue to refuse our attempts to educate you, we will start to HAVE TO THINK THAT YOU ARE NOT RATIONAL.

Do you understand the dynamic now, Mr. Sandwich?

;-)

Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

So you still don't want to answer the question about long gun registration. I've asked 4 times, and you as CGF board member can't answer that. You ask why I'm on this thread, it's because I am shocked that people on here are defending his signature on the long gun registration bill, that's why.

That's not wanting to argue, it's simply being evasive, if you don't want to answer that then just say so. Even though no other RKBA group besides the NRA has ever been this secretive.

CALGUNS is the ONLY group in California that is doing anything. You guys have been successful more so than some of the naysayers on here would like to think (Gene refers to them as Battered Gun Owners) and California IS much better off than it was 7 years ago when I use to be glad that I lived just on the east side of the Colorado River.

When certain people (not you in particular) saying long gun registration is part of a complex plan on one hand but then donate money on other threads on the other hands.... well that make's me skeptical and perhaps even want some answers. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks that.

Anyone else reading this can see that you are being a jerk Kevin, I've never seen someone on the board of directors of any RKBA group act like a condescending jerk. If you don't know why, then you would have simply not responded, but you defended long gun registration.

Again, the question is... for the 4th time...

How does long gun registration help the cause? If you don't know the answer then why defend Brown on that one.

[desertjosh]

Things sure are hot in here...

[oaklander]

So you still don't want to answer the question about long gun registration. I've asked 4 times, and you as CGF board member can't answer that. You ask why I'm on this thread, it's because I am shocked that people on here are defending his signature on the long gun registration bill, that's why.

That's not wanting to argue, it's simply being evasive, if you don't want to answer that then just say so. Even though no other RKBA group besides the NRA has ever been this secretive.

CALGUNS is the ONLY group in California that is doing anything. You guys have been successful more so than some of the naysayers on here would like to think (Gene refers to them as Battered Gun Owners) and California IS much better off than it was 7 years ago when I use to be glad that I lived just on the east side of the Colorado River.

When certain people (not you in particular) saying long gun registration is part of a complex plan on one hand but then donate money on other threads on the other hands.... well that make's me skeptical and perhaps even want some answers. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who thinks that.

Anyone else reading this can see that you are being a jerk Kevin, I've never seen someone on the board of directors of any RKBA group act like a condescending jerk. If you don't know why, then you would have simply not responded, but you defended long gun registration.

Again, the question is... for the 4th time...

How does long gun registration help the cause? If you don't know the answer then why defend Brown on that one.

1) I am not a Board Member

2) My only point is the truth that Brown is not opposition

Yes, I am a jerk. Now go home.

;-)

I do not even follow the legislation and/or the litigation. My role as "Of Counsel" to the Foundation is essentially Ambassador with respect to other groups. Right now, I am doing local work here in Oakland on things that are not even gun-related (but which DO impact our civil rights). I do this all for free, and spend about 2000 hours per year doing unpaid pro bono work for our civil rights movement.

Again, you are simply an angry person. I am trying to help you - but you seem impervious to our overtures. I am nobody, I throw BBQ's, and make phone calls. You seem mad at me for something that an elected official did. When we all try to explain to you that people do things for complex reasons, you still do not understand. I do not know Brown directly. If you want to know why he signed the long gun thing, read the signing letter, or contact his office and ask them. I do not follow legislation, or litigation - I am wrong person to ask. HOWEVER, I do know pretty much every person in the state of any import who is fighting for your rights (amd 99.9 percent of them are ALSO UNPAID).

You have managed to irritate pretty much all of us at this point. Please, change your tone - and we can maybe help you. But if you persist in being rude and confontational and irrational, there is really no reason to give you the time of day.

Understood?


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

[gbp]

"Listen to me. It makes you feel good. (It will make you feel like a puppy riding a Unicorn.)"
Now thats some funny **** right there
Why do I feel as though I'm riding on the horn?

[oaklander]

"Listen to me. It makes you feel good. (It will make you feel like a puppy riding a Unicorn.)"
Now thats some funny **** right there
Why do I feel as though I'm riding on the horn?

The force is strong with this one!

;-)

YES, the only way I can even justify doing this work is by keeping it fun for us. I really do enjoy doing this stuff - and I simply do not like working with angry people. . .

Those of us who have fun tend to get more done anyways!


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

[OleCuss]

.
.
.
You ask why I'm on this thread, it's because I am shocked that people on here are defending his signature on the long gun registration bill, that's why.
.
.
.

Whoa! I guess I missed something big time!

I didn't know anyone was actually defending signing the long gun registration bill. Maybe they have, but I don't recall seeing it.

Personally, I can't forgive any vote or signature (or veto) which violates a civil right - even if it is strategically beneficial.

I also recall at least one CGF board member being unhappy about his signing the long gun registration bill. I also read where reference has been made to Heller II's casting doubt on the constitutionality of long gun registration - which means that California's long gun registration bill may not be able to stand up to a court challenge.

But the part that I've heard/read on registration is that it really isn't all that big a deal since a form of de facto registration already exists (and it does). Thinking that it is not a huge deal doesn't mean one favors the enactment of the bill or that one is at all pleased by JB signing the bill.

Personally, I think that it is a mistake to consider JB to be the great friend of civil rights - but it is clear that he is better than the legislature and an improvement over the previous governor. It is also possible that JB is better than Meg would have been.

The other thing to consider? I've been privy to some political dealings over the years (never been a bigwig by any stretch) but I have had interesting contacts. . . There is a lot of trading of favors and nastiness - and an awful lot of it is never known to the general public.

When I read oaklander's statements I get this very strong impression that if you and I knew what was going on behind the scenes we just might want to write JB a thank you note. Not sure I would (I'm anything but a JB fan) - but what oak and a few others keep hinting at gives me pause. . .

Edit: I should add that California is awfully close to one-party rule. After the next election the conventional political wisdom is that the Republicans will have virtually no effect on any legislation or other part of state government. That suggests that the place in which we should be looking for friends is within the Democrat party (I get a bad taste in my mouth just from typing that). Given that JB is one of only a very few relevant politicians who are better than the average Democrat in the legislature it might be wise to court him instead of alienating him.

I'm not sure that the conventional political wisdom is correct. If I had any faith in the California GOP I'd be betting on significant Republican gains in the legislature in 2012 - but I have no such faith. Since I have no faith in the California GOP it may be better to look for the best of the Democrats and befriend them.

[oaklander]

Whoa! I guess I missed something big time!

I didn't know anyone was actually defending signing the long gun registration bill. Maybe they have, but I don't recall seeing it.

Personally, I can't forgive any vote or signature (or veto) which violates a civil right - even if it is strategically beneficial.

I also recall at least one CGF board member being unhappy about his signing the long gun registration bill. I also read where reference has been made to Heller II's casting doubt on the constitutionality of long gun registration - which means that California's long gun registration bill may not be able to stand up to a court challenge.

But the part that I've heard/read on registration is that it really isn't all that big a deal since a form of de facto registration already exists (and it does). Thinking that it is not a huge deal doesn't mean one favors the enactment of the bill or that one is at all pleased by JB signing the bill.

Personally, I think that it is a mistake to consider JB to be the great friend of civil rights - but it is clear that he is better than the legislature and an improvement over the previous governor. It is also possible that JB is better than Meg would have been.

The other thing to consider? I've been privy to some political dealings over the years (never been a bigwig by any stretch) but I have had interesting contacts. . . There is a lot of trading of favors and nastiness - and an awful lot of it is never known to the general public.

When I read oaklander's statements I get this very strong impression that if you and I knew what was going on behind the scenes we just might want to write JB a thank you note. Not sure I would (I'm anything but a JB fan) - but what oak and a few others keep hinting at gives me pause. . .

YES!

I simply do not know enough to say anything other than that Brown is not opposition. I am personally a "long gun person" - I love my rifles! So the thing he signed DOES bother me. But I am also privy to communications from our legislative liaisons on certain topics, and they have a generally positive relationship with Brown and his staff.

But yes, I don't recall any of us LIKING THIS!

That is the "listen" part I am getting at. People form snap opinions about people and issues, when the reality is much more complex. For example:

Some folks think that I have a lot of money. I do not.

I spend most of my days doing unpaid work for our civil rights, and I pay ALL my own expenses. Last year, I had at LEAST $5000 in travel and hotel expenses, and another HUGE amount in lost billing revenue. I only make money when I actually WORK for my day job!

I live in East Oakland, and am behind on my rent (as usual).

It kind of hurts my feelings when someone who does not even know me, as a person - starts saying bad things about me and my friends.

1) NONE of the folks who do the grassroots work get paid.

2) WE are on the same winning team.

3) Not everything can be explained on the internet.

4) Some folks need to listen.

;-)


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

[creekside]

That being said, how does long gun registration help us? Will you answer this question or not.

I am nobody, except a login on this board. (I was a member of Democrats for the 2nd Amendment a long lifetime ago . . . and a member of the Pink Pistols now.)

Long gun registration is a horrible idea that helps no one. JPFO, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, is blunt on this point. Registration of firearms equals confiscation of firearms equals genocide. Full stop. Chart in PDF format.

The only reason a pro-gun politician would sign such a bill is if he felt assured that it would be overturned.

Let's look at that. According to CBS news and also here:

"Registration is probably not unconstitutional," says Don Kilmer, an attorney in San Jose, Calif. ... "There's a difference between registration as a permissible regulation and registration as good policy."

...

Eugene Volokh, a professor of law at UCLA and curator of the libertarian-leaning Volokh.com site, addresses this in an article in the latest UCLA Law Review. It argues that a registration requirement is commonplace among other constitutional rights.

...

"Even though the constitutionality of such a measure is a close call, it is a horrible public policy choice," says Gene Hoffman, chairman of the CalGuns Foundation. [emphasis added]

So when Jerry Brown signed long gun registration, he did not do so as a friend of gun rights. This is politics, and while Jerry may have done us a few big favors on related matters, we need to recognize the realities of the situation.

If you want an RKBA-friendly government, it's time to start educating and voting for one. If you vote, that's one. If you get your friends to vote, that's 10-20. If you educate people who vote and get their friends to vote, that can translate to hundreds and thousands of votes.

Scaring soccer moms into scaring their friends is just plain stupid.

Your rights: use 'em and/or lose 'em. That's the choice.

[rt66paul]

We have to remember that this is government in action. Long gun registration is just CYA. Sadly, many of these politicians go along with this because the people that paid for their election campaigns really want them too, and "after all, what harm does it do?"

We all know what harm it does, just look at a couple of other English speaking countries that have had them outlawed. Many of these politicians have no clue about it, they only see gun violence in the news all the time. The news is slanted, either the ammo was FMJ, so that it can go through "bullet proof" vests, or it is that horrible "hollow point", that is made to go in small and take out a big hole on exit. It is sad that people believe this and worse. It is also sad when these people are ready to give up their and others' rights because they actually believe that we are protected.

JB is not this guy. He has been in state and city politics a long time and from a person who has been where he has, it could very well look better and safer for the sheeple not to be armed. After all, he was mayor of a city with a very high crime rate, some had to rub off. We need to keep writing him and show how you feel about firearms. Yes, just like there are antigun nuts around, there are also many gun nuts that no one really wants to live near, because they might snap. This scares people from everywhere. The recent atrocity in Seal Beach just affirms many people's beliefs. We need to show these people that we (the potential CCW holders) are educated and safe operators of firearms and are not half cocked vigilantes waiting for someone (a teenage shoplifter?) to blow away, because you have that vision of law and order.

If there were any CCW holders in that salon, maybe, just maybe, it would have had a much lower injury count.

[ja308]

Many other states are winning .
They are all republican --every one .
I quit the democratic party because of their anti 2A bias.

That will never happen in Ca.
I need that calgun ring to feel better about what was signed .