Legal question on Nightvision and PC 468

[Firemark]

Apologies if this has been asked already I could not find a string on this topic.

According to CA PC468

Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

So as I read this a night vision scope combined with an IR projected light source is a "sniperscope" by CA standards and is Illegal.
My question is if one just has a night vision scope by itself (passive) with no IR light is this legal in CA?
It is only the addition of the IR light, that creates the contrivance that is an illegal "Sniperscope"

Librarian your thoughts????

[Quiet]

old thread on this topic

The law [PC 468] was written by people who did not know how a night vision device worked and were relying on stuff they saw in the movies and how Korean War era active IR night vision scopes worked. The law has never been updated to keep up with technology.

Summary...
Active IR scope with magnification = illegal
Active IR scope with no magnification = legal
Passive IR scope with magnification = legal
Passive IR scope with magnification and an IR illuminator = illegal
Passive IR scope with no magnifcation = legal
Passive IR scope with no magnification and an IR illuminator = legal
Active IR goggles with magnification = legal
Active IR goggles with no magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with magnification and an IR illuminator = legal
Passive IR googles with no magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with no magnification and an IR illuminator = legal

[fd15k]

Summary...
Passive IR scope with magnification and an IR illuminator = illegal

I wonder if Surefire M952V while set for visible output is still considered an illuminator

[Tripper]

I'd have to use one to educate myself on that

[CHS]

This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.[/I]

So as I read this a night vision scope combined with an IR projected light source is a "sniperscope" by CA standards and is Illegal.
My question is if one just has a night vision scope by itself (passive) with no IR light is this legal in CA?
It is only the addition of the IR light, that creates the contrivance that is an illegal "Sniperscope"

Librarian your thoughts????

There's your exemption... (read the bolded part)

[Firemark]

old thread on this topic

The law [PC 468] was written by people who did not know how a night vision device worked and were relying on stuff they saw in the movies and how Korean War era active IR night vision scopes worked. The law has never been updated to keep up with technology.

Summary...
Active IR scope with magnification = illegal
Active IR scope with no magnification = legal
Passive IR scope with magnification = legal
Passive IR scope with magnification and an IR illuminator = illegal
Passive IR scope with no magnifcation = legal
Passive IR scope with no magnification and an IR illuminator = legal
Active IR goggles with magnification = legal
Active IR goggles with no magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with magnification and an IR illuminator = legal
Passive IR googles with no magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with no magnification and an IR illuminator = legal

Thanks guys I figured it was already covered just couldnt find the string, questions answered im satisfied.

[ubet]

chs, I am guessing you have to have some involvement with a school etc....

[Toyz]

chs, I am guessing you have to have some involvement with a school etc....

What about personal education. I am always attempting to educate myself by reading these forums.

[stix213]

There's your exemption... (read the bolded part)

Problem with that is it looks like an exception that gets brought up at court.... as in after you have been arrested and charged.

[MindBuilder]

>>>nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

>>There's your exemption

Toyz wrote:
>I am always attempting to educate myself by reading these forums.

Are you saying you are going to start reading Calguns using a night vision rifle scope? That's hardcore! I think Gene Hoffman is the only guy that does that currently. Probably because he doesn't want to miss anything.

Seriously though, the law as quoted might not be interpreted to require that the infrared illuminator be attached to the electronic telescope. It just says "...through the use of a projected infrared light source..." not "incorporating a projected infrared light source" The necessity of the light source being incorporated into the scope is arguable, and questionable interpretation should be in favor of the defendant, but judges sometimes do what the one in Theseus's case did and ignore the clear meaning of the law, let alone come down on the wrong side of a vague definition.

[oldsmoboat]

Problem with that is it looks like an exception that gets brought up at court.... as in after you have been arrested and charged.

Buy and use it.
Write an educational review on Calguns.
Profit.

[not legal advice]

[jeanreau]

Apologies if this has been asked already I could not find a string on this topic.

According to CA PC468

Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.

This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

So as I read this a night vision scope combined with an IR projected light source is a "sniperscope" by CA standards and is Illegal.
My question is if one just has a night vision scope by itself (passive) with no IR light is this legal in CA?
It is only the addition of the IR light, that creates the contrivance that is an illegal "Sniperscope"

Librarian your thoughts????

So I'm reading this again and I can't get past the section that says "and electronic telescope". So the law is supposed to be explicit and it is saying that the magnification must be electronic.

Am I correct in assuming that non-electronic magnification would then be not covered in the public code?

[BigFatGuy]

What about an IR security camera with led's and a zoom lens?

[moleculo]

old thread on this topic

The law [PC 468] was written by people who did not know how a night vision device worked and were relying on stuff they saw in the movies and how Korean War era active IR night vision scopes worked. The law has never been updated to keep up with technology.

Summary...
Active IR scope with magnification = illegal
Active IR scope with no magnification = legal
Passive IR scope with magnification = legal
Passive IR scope with magnification and an IR illuminator = illegal
Passive IR scope with no magnifcation = legal
Passive IR scope with no magnification and an IR illuminator = legal
Active IR goggles with magnification = legal
Active IR goggles with no magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with magnification and an IR illuminator = legal
Passive IR googles with no magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with no magnification and an IR illuminator = legal

I like this breakdown, but being a noob to night vision, it would help if we could get a couple of example products / brands that are legal

[Librarian]

best legal advice is move to a free state where you can own whatever you want under state law. that's what I'm doing.

And I hope you are successful in moving, and have a healthy and happy life wherever you choose to settle.

We get it.

You don't like it here.

You're moving.

Enough.