Is my logic wrong?

[morrcarr67]

For ease I will be typing in the first person. Edit: I live in Ontario, CA and I am trying to understand these 2 laws in question.

I live in Free America and I own guns. For some strange reason I decided to move to California. I do some research and find PC 12072 f(2)(a)

(2)(A)On or after January 1, 1998, within 60 days of bringing a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person into this state, a personal handgun importer shall do one of the following:

(i)Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.

(ii)Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d).

(iii)Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071.

(iv)Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

I decide to comply with PC 12072 f(2)(a) by implementing clause (ii)Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d).

So, my intention is to move to CA and sell my handguns in compliance of PC 12072 f(2)(a) clasue (ii).

Then I find PC 12125 (a)

(a)Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

Now this code says that my plans to comply with PC 12072 f(2)(a) clause (ii) is in direct violation of PC 12125 (a)

How can this be?

But I continue to read PC 12125 and find 12125 (c)

(c)Violations of subdivision (a) are cumulative with respect to each handgun and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and other provisions of law shall not be punished under more than one provision, but the penalty to be imposed shall be determined as set forth in Section 654.

I understand "Violations of subdivision (a) are cumulative with respect to each handgun" means that they can charge you for 3 counts of violation if you manufacture, import, sell 3 guns.

But what does "shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law" mean?

The way I read it that one part of that sentence makes PC 12125 (a) not applicable to PC 12072 f(2)(a) clause (ii).

Is my logic wrong?


Edit: I removed the word "section" and replaced it with "clause"

[SanPedroShooter]

Your first mistake is assuming "logic" applies to CA PC. These laws are thought up (i use the term "thought" loosely) to combat real or perceived problems by a full time law making machine in Sacramento. They are then dumped on the confused populous and forgotten about with no effort to track or measure there effectiveness. Our continuously shrinking police and criminal justice resource is occasionally called upon to make head or tails of this mess with varying degrees of success, but by that time our masters have moved on to the next set of 700 or 800 new laws they make ever year.

Wash, rinse, repeat...

Owning guns in California can be a risky proposition, I hedge my bets by staying off the radar and keeping CGF on speed dial

[rogervzv]

And more laws get passed because idiot retard activists stir up the Lefties by going to shopping malls packing open guns. So they pass laws against these mall warriors and now we have almost no UOC or OC in this state. Guess the activists showed them or something.

[dieselpower]

so you are admitting you are coming to this state to ILLEGALLY sell handguns...really??? You intend to sell these illegally and you are upset you can not sell them to gang bangers and prohibited persons. While I agree all persons have the right to self defense, this is not a wise thing to do...

or

Are you saying you are coming to CA and then LEGALLY sell your handguns.

(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(4) The sale or purchase of any pistol, revolver or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, if the pistol, revolver, or other firearm is sold to, or purchased by, the Department of Justice, any police department, any sheriff's official, any marshal's office, the Youth and Adult Correctional Agency, the California Highway Patrol, any district attorney's office, or the military or naval forces of this state or of the United States for use in the discharge of their official duties. Nor shall anything in this section prohibit the sale to, or purchase by, sworn members of these agencies of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.

[Catechol]

And more laws get passed because idiot retard activists stir up the Lefties by going to shopping malls packing open guns.

Yeah, it's those damn activists -- not the communists that control the state -- and their damn exercising of their rights that are the damn problem!

[rogervzv]

Yeah, it's those damn activists -- not the communists that control the state -- and their damn exercising of their rights that are the damn problem!

They are part of the problem, yes.

Just because the Leftists are the main problem this does not absolve from blame idiots who provoke a political row by showing the populace that the law lets them do unpopular things. Do you believe in results? The result of this idiocy is the death of UOC in California. Thanks, activists.

I like to OC out in the boonies. The new UOC ban will largely screw this up. Idiots who want to open carry in shopping malls and upset the little soccer moms have done us all a disservice. Yeah I blame them. You bet.

[hoffmang]

It's just badly written.

You need to read section 12132 and I believe you will find the exemption for moving in with unrostered handguns and selling them: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1.3/s12132

-Gene

[morrcarr67]

so you are admitting you are coming to this state to ILLEGALLY sell handguns...really??? You intend to sell these illegally and you are upset you can not sell them to gang bangers and prohibited persons. While I agree all persons have the right to self defense, this is not a wise thing to do...

or

Are you saying you are coming to CA and then LEGALLY sell your handguns.

No. I live in Ontario. I was just typing in the first person. I'm trying to understand the laws.

BTW: Diesel, where did you get that I wanted to sell guns illegally to "gang bangers"?

For ease I will be typing in the first person.

I live in Free America and I own guns. For some strange reason I decided to move to California. I do some research and find PC 12072 f(2)(a)



I decide to comply with PC 12072 f(2)(a) by implementing section (ii)Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of subdivision (d) or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from subdivision (d).

So, my intention is to move to CA and sell my handguns in compliance of PC 12072 f(2)(a) section (ii).

Then I find PC 12125 (a)



Now this code says that my plans to comply with PC 12072 f(2)(a) section (ii) is in direct violation of PC 12125 (a)

How can this be?

But I continue to read PC 12125 and find 12125 (c)



I understand "Violations of subdivision (a) are cumulative with respect to each handgun" means that they can charge you for 3 counts of violation if you manufacture, import, sell 3 guns.

But what does "shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law" mean?

The way I read it that one part of that sentence makes PC 12125 (a) not applicable to PC 12072 f(2)(a) section (ii).

Is my logic wrong?

[Falconis]

or did you want to keep them and ran into that penal code first?

[morrcarr67]

It's just badly written.

You need to read section 12132 and I believe you will find the exemption for moving in with unrostered handguns and selling them: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/cacode/PEN/3/4/2/1.3/s12132

-Gene

I'm sorry Gene I've read PC 12132 like five times up and down and this is what I see.

I see reference to 12072 (d) all over the place.

The only reference to 10272 (f) I see is where they talk about returning a gun to the owner if a sale doesn't go through.

(e)The return of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 to its owner where that firearm was initially delivered in the circumstances set forth in subdivisions (a), (d), (f) or (j).

I also saw reference to PC 12082 in 12132 (a) so I looked the up as well. Again the only reference to 12072 (f)(2)(a) clause (ii) is:

(b)The Attorney General shall adopt regulations under this section to do all of the following:

(1)Allow the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm, and the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, to complete a sale, loan, or transfer through a dealer, and to allow those persons and the dealer to comply with the requirements of this section and Sections 12071, 12072, 12076, and 12077 and to preserve the confidentiality of those records.

(2)Where a personal handgun importer is selling or transferring a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person to comply with clause (ii) of subparagraph (A) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072, to allow a personal handgun importer's ownership of the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person being sold or transferred to be recorded in a manner that if the firearm is returned to that personal handgun importer because the sale or transfer cannot be completed, the Department of Justice will have sufficient information about that personal handgun importer so that a record of his or her ownership can be maintained in the registry provided by subdivision (c) of Section 11106.

If you could shed a little light on what you see in 12132 that I'm missing I would be much appreciative.

[morrcarr67]

or did you want to keep them and ran into that penal code first?

I live in Ontario, CA. I'm just trying to understand the laws.

There is one PC that says to comply with the law you have to register, sell or transfer your handguns if you move to CA.

There is a 2nd PC that says if you plan on selling your handguns when you move to CA you are in violation of that law.

How can you comply with one law when that would put you in violation of another law?

[goodlookin1]

How can you comply with one law when that would put you in violation of another law?

Yes.


Does that answer your question?

That's about as much sense as you can make from CA gun laws.

[MindBuilder]

I'm just guessing here, but maybe you can only move into the state and dispose of your gun if it's on the safe roster. So if it's not on the roster then you can't bring it in at all. When the ban on any import of un-rostered guns was enacted, they may not have realized that they were nullifying the grace period. Then again, considering their hostility to guns and their desire to create legal minefields for gun owners, maybe they did realize.

[Scratch705]

I'm just guessing here, but maybe you can only move into the state and dispose of your gun if it's on the safe roster. So if it's not on the roster then you can't bring it in at all. When the ban on any import of un-rostered guns was enacted, they may not have realized that they were nullifying the grace period. Then again, considering their hostility to guns and their desire to create legal minefields for gun owners, maybe they did realize.

wrong.

persons moving into state can bring any guns not on the safe handgun roster as long as it doesn't violate the CA's handgun AW laws which is threaded barrel and some other items i can't remember.

[morrcarr67]

wrong.

persons moving into state can bring any guns not on the safe handgun roster as long as it doesn't violate the CA's handgun AW laws which is threaded barrel and some other items i can't remember.

Right. The 2 biggest things you need to watch out for when it comes to handgun AW laws are the threaded barrels you mentioned and detachable magazines outside of the pistol grip.

Here is a link to the handgun AW flowchart

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf