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AWB as a taking?

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  • jojojones
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2006
    • 32

    AWB as a taking?

    Reading an article in the L.A. Times about the a property deal involving the Edge of U2 fame lead me to thinking: can/has the CA AWB been challenged as a taking?

    I did a quick search and did not find anything definitive, but I will admit to being lazy in my search. I know traditionally regulatory takings mostly involved real property vs. personal property, which would be the case of "AWs." But the ban seems to be a restraint on the alienation of property as it means one cannot sell their registered "AW" with in the state of CA nor could one bequeath the registered "AW" to a descendant in CA. So it seems the government has taken the some rights commonly associated with property.

    There may be holes in this as one could sell the Registered "AW", just out of state.

    Now, I am not familiar with the legislative history of either Roberti-Roos or SB23 (?) so I am not sure if either was declared to have a fiscal impact. However assuming that they did not, the benefit, if the current AWB was found to be a taking, would seem to be an increase the voting threshold on any new ban as it now has a fiscal impact, IIRC the voting requirements correctly. This is also under the assumption that any future ban would be similar in nature and effect as the current one. I am sure the anti's could Fashion a future ban to not have a fiscal impact.

    Plus it hits the State in the wallet, which may or may not be a good things for us taxpayers.

    I know there are multiple Per se takings, that I do not thing that the AWB falls under. However, the factor based takings jurisprudence may work, the owners were economically impacted because of the restraint on alienation. There investment backed expectation of the ability to resell has been interfered with (Though, see the problem with this one above). The nature of the government action was an outright ban.

    Now, I admit that this is an over simplistic analysis using wikipedia info on takings but thought I would throw it out there for the legal eagles to opine upon.
  • #2
    mag360
    Calguns Addict
    • Jun 2009
    • 5198



    your post doesn't make sense, but yes CGF is working on this. look in this forum for a locked post on the subject by Gene.
    just happy to be here. I like talking about better ways to protect ourselves.

    Shop at AMAZON to help Calguns Foundation

    CRPA Life Member. Click here to Join.

    NRA Member JOIN HERE/

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    • #3
      jojojones
      Junior Member
      • Mar 2006
      • 32

      Sorry it doesn't make sense. It turned into a stream of consciousness situation. Will search for the post by gene.

      Thanks

      Comment

      • #4
        wash
        Calguns Addict
        • Aug 2007
        • 9011

        I understood most of your post, I'm just not sure cost analysis was required for these bills when they were passed.

        The idea that CA stole our property rights with the ban is an interesting angle, I just don't know if that makes for a good lawsuit.

        Either way, a couple groups are actively fighting the ban with other legal theories.
        sigpic
        Originally posted by oaklander
        Dear Kevin,

        You suck!!! Your are wrong!!! Stop it!!!
        Proud CGF and CGN donor. SAF life member. Former CRPA member. Gpal beta tester (it didn't work). NRA member.

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        • #5
          Librarian
          Admin and Poltergeist
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Oct 2005
          • 44628

          The only cost analysis required for California legislation is whether it will cost the state or local governments money to enforce.

          It seems to me that, pre-McDonald, filing suit against Roberti-Roos would likely have failed on standing issues under any theory of harm.
          ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

          Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

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          • #6
            RandyD
            Calguns Addict
            • Jan 2009
            • 6673

            Generally, the Constitution's Taking Clause in the Fifth Amendment requires a taking of one's property for public use. However, there was a decision about 5 years ago where the Supreme Court allowed the taking for a private use. Some legal research will have to be done on this issue, but I believe there is some validity to the OP's point.
            sigpic

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            • #7
              Bhobbs
              I need a LIFE!!
              • Feb 2009
              • 11848

              Originally posted by RandyD
              Generally, the Constitution's Taking Clause in the Fifth Amendment requires a taking of one's property for public use. However, there was a decision about 5 years ago where the Supreme Court allowed the taking for a private use. Some legal research will have to be done on this issue, but I believe there is some validity to the OP's point.
              How can our government say it is taking property for private use?

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              • #8
                WeThePeople
                CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                • Mar 2006
                • 233

                Here's a thread that should answer your inheritance questions.

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                • #9
                  Southwest Chuck
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2009
                  • 1942

                  Not to get to far off topic, but if the government can force me to buy something (Health-care Insurance), then they can force me to sell something (my AW). If the opposite is true, if they can't force me to buy a certain product, then they shouldn't be able to compel me to sell a certain product (I legally own). We'll just have to wait to see which side the Supreme Court weighs in on.
                  Originally posted by Southwest Chuck
                  I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
                  Originally posted by toby
                  Go cheap you will always have cheap and if you sell, it will sell for even cheaper. Buy the best you can every time.
                  ^^^ Wise Man. Take his advice

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                  • #10
                    WeThePeople
                    CGN/CGSSA Contributor - Lifetime
                    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 233

                    Originally posted by Southwest Chuck
                    Not to get to far off topic, but if the government can force me to buy something (Health-care Insurance), then they can force me to sell something (my AW). If the opposite is true, if they can't force me to buy a certain product, then they shouldn't be able to compel me to sell a certain product (I legally own). We'll just have to wait to see which side the Supreme Court weighs in on.
                    Also, the government should not force you to register (or go to jail) something you already own.

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                    • #11
                      Meplat
                      Calguns Addict
                      • Jul 2008
                      • 6903

                      Originally posted by Bhobbs
                      How can our government say it is taking property for private use?
                      They take it from one owner who is using it for, say, a residence, and give it to another private interest that will use it for commercial purposes which generate more tax revenue. Thus the taking is deemed to be in the public interest.
                      sigpicTake not lightly liberty
                      To have it you must live it
                      And like love, don't you see
                      To keep it you must give it

                      "I will talk with you no more.
                      I will go now, and fight you."
                      (Red Cloud)

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                      • #12
                        ALSystems
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 1150

                        Originally posted by Meplat
                        They take it from one owner who is using it for, say, a residence, and give it to another private interest that will use it for commercial purposes which generate more tax revenue. Thus the taking is deemed to be in the public interest.
                        This reasoning is just legal double talk to justify a wrong decision that effectively redefines "public use" into "private use" for the purpose of eminent domain taking.
                        I don't believe it any more than you.
                        • Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
                        • Register liberals, not guns . . . they cause more damage. -vantec08
                        • Liberalism is a mental disorder. Hoplophobia is but one symptom of the irrational thought processes of our demented political class on the left. -Wrangler John
                        • There is no real justice anymore. The legal system is just that: the legal system, not the justice system. -kcbrown
                        • California is essentially a banana republic . . . corrupt and intransigent.

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                        • #13
                          Quser.619
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 777

                          I'd imagine that the Kelo decision would be used to negate these claims, since it was determined that local governments can take property for financial reasons or reasons of "public interest."
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