OPEN THAT LOCKED CONTAINER!

[skeptik]

question about that... first off i would like to say that i have nothing to hide. if i am traveling with a locked container leaving from the range to home and have done nothing wrong, if an officer asks for the container to be unlocked and opened, do i legally have to open it? and does that go against the 4th amendment? Just curious. then scenario #2... theres ammo in the locked container.

as of right now i travel with my pistols locked up, my .22 rifle in a zip up case not locked and ammo in its can which doesnt have a lock as well. with in the law? too many questions? haha good cause i have plenty more, but ill save them for another thread

[Connor P Price]

Your within the law. No need to open the container. If you open the container yourself there is no violation of the 4th, wait for your lawyer.

[bussda]

if you told the officer there are guns in the case you may have to open the case for 12031(e) check, otherwise, no.

[hoffmang]

CGF would really, really love a situation where a Calgunner who was doing nothing wrong required an officer to damage a case to get access. We'll even buy you a new case!

-Gene

[WDE91]

Calguns foundation has bag tags that say the following

In case of encounter,detainment, or arrest
1 state that you do not wish to answer questions, then remain silent
2 do not consent to a search
3 demand an attorney
4 call CGF

On the back

NOTICE TO POLICE
The contents of this container are private
voluntary consent to search is not granted
a search warrant is required for access

With this info I would say
NO WARRANT NO ACCESS



#2 you are good to go
unloaded pistol in locked container GOOD
unloaded .22lr rifle in unlocked container can possibly be an issue
read this thread on the topic

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=436006

ammo does not need to be locked


If you have questions ask away
I know for me I would rather respond to newb questions than have a newb wearing an orange jumpsuit

[bussda]

And put a lock on the rifle case unless you are 100% certain you will not be in a gun free school zone.

[Zimz]

12031(e) applies to unloaded open carry, not transport of locked firearms.

[Yugo]

doesnt his .22 rifle have to be locked in GFSZ? even driving by.

EDIT: came in too late.

[dantodd]

CGF would really, really love a situation where a Calgunner who was doing nothing wrong required an officer to damage a case to get access. We'll even buy you a new case!

-Gene

The problem with that is the most likely reason one would be compelled to open a locked case is because you've already admitted to being in possession of a gun and 12031(e) is pretty clear that you are compelled to permit a search. If you don't permit the search you can be arrested and convicted. The problem is unless you break the law by denying the search you won't know if the officer will break-in or arrest and wait for a search warrant. Or are you actually looking for people to refuse a 12031(e) check? I'm sure there are lots of Open Carriers who would be happy to carry along a "gun box" then refuse the search. Heck, it could have contents that are similar weight/density but are not firearms. Therefore the search denial isn't denying the 12031(e) check per se.

[socal2310]

question about that... first off i would like to say that i have nothing to hide. if i am traveling with a locked container leaving from the range to home and have done nothing wrong, if an officer asks for the container to be unlocked and opened, do i legally have to open it? and does that go against the 4th amendment? Just curious. then scenario #2... theres ammo in the locked container.

as of right now i travel with my pistols locked up, my .22 rifle in a zip up case not locked and ammo in its can which doesnt have a lock as well. with in the law? too many questions? haha good cause i have plenty more, but ill save them for another thread

There is no requirement to lock ammunition and ammunition may be transported in the same container as the firearm as long as the firearm is unloaded (no loaded magazine in the well).

I'll wait for an expert opinion on the 12031(e) check:

(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory.

Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

On the one hand, the law expressly permits inspection of a firearm in a car to ensure it is unloaded. On the other hand, it implies a firearm being transported openly and there is no way for them to know there is a firearm in the locked case unless you (or your passenger) tell them.

Ryan

[dantodd]

12031(e) applies to unloaded open carry, not transport of locked firearms.

Nope. It applies to any transport.

12031. (a)(1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

Note, there is no limitation to openly carrying. Any carry; including a locked case. Even in your car. If you are asked if you have guns in your car and answer affirmatively you are then subject to 12031(e) which says...

12031(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

Note: "on his or her person or in a vehicle"

[paul0660]

12031(e) applies to unloaded open carry, not transport of locked firearms.

It applies if the gun owner admits to possessing firearms when asked.

doesnt his .22 rifle have to be locked in GFSZ? even driving by.

Federal law says yes, state law says not necessary.

[bussda]

12031(e) applies to unloaded open carry, not transport of locked firearms.

I thought so too, but it applies to verifying unloaded with a few exceptions with regard to location. Read the statue.

[hoffmang]

The problem with that is the most likely reason one would be compelled to open a locked case is because you've already admitted to being in possession of a gun and 12031(e) is pretty clear that you are compelled to permit a search.

Don't confuse a statue with the Fourth Amendment. There are very particular reasons I want a case forced.

-Gene

[dantodd]

Don't confuse a statue with the Fourth Amendment. There are very particular reasons I want a case forced.

-Gene

I understand completely. I was just wondering exactly what CGF would "love" to have. I am sure there are more than a few folks who would be willing to deny a locked case 12031(e) search request but the standing orders HAD been to not violate statute specifically to be a test case.