Online ammo retailer refusing to ship to ventura county

[Maestro Pistolero]

He further stated that while we can legally sell the ammo that we run the risk of getting sued if somebody unknowingly gets caught shooting that ammo.

I hope that particularly bizarre advice doesn't constitute any significant portion of your legal expenses in this matter.

Thanks for stepping up and looking onto this. There are too many actual stupid laws out there to be dodging any imaginary ones.

[MikeH1]

Los Angeles is a great example of somewhere that there IS a law prohibiting you from doing so. Please stay in compliance with the law in areas such as that, I don't want to hear about any pro-2A businesses having problems because of our crappy laws.

sadly, more misinformation; no law prohibiting, just cumbersome regulations to deal with, I live in L.A. City and I buy ammo all the time online, never had a problem

[oni.dori]

FYI - We just got our FFL and YES we will ship to any FFL in California provided the gun is legal to own in California.

http://www.sevenspringsarmory.com

Even BETTER news. We here in CA are ALWAYS looking for good deals on CA compliant AR's, AK/Saiga variants, FAL's, and lower recievers, and online retailers that are CA friendly seem to be few and far between. Honestly, keep being involved in this site, and expand your activities to other parts of the forums, and I can almost garantee you that you will more than make up for the money you have spent getting set up to do business with us gunlovers here in CA. Definitely keep us updated and informed, and get involved in the vendors section. Also, keep interacting with the community, building relationships and reputations here will pay in spades for you.

[Trailboss60]

Maybe online firearm-related retailers can send happy meal type kiddy gifts to the children of ammo buyers.

I am in the bay area to attend the wife's grandma's funeral, went into Jack in the box and noticed that they are complying with the toy ban....

If politicians are so arrogant as to pass laws abrogating the ability of a parent to make the decision on behalf of their kids diet, I cannot find fault with an online retailer that chooses to do business or not do business in a state that historically has shown themselves to be hostile to that industry.

A district attorney in a political climate can break the stones of a poor schlub trying to scratch out a living in another state if he decides to get a bug up his *****...say a Jared Loughner type individual lived in SF and bought ammo online and shot 15 people...does anyone seriously think that the SF DA wouldn't try to make an example out of the merchant? The legal cost's in that scenario could be in the millions, even if he is found innocent in the transaction.

Until NY DA Cyrus Vance has his political clock cleaned, if I had a small business selling knives for a living, I wouldn't be selling in NY even if it is legal.

If a merchant chooses to not sell in Ca. it isn't because he has some type of axe to grind against the citizens...it's simply that he might not b able to afford the risks.

[FishNFool]

Won't ship to Napa

This vendor won't ship to Napa. They have a warning saying they cannot ship to Napa. I believe that spreads misinformation about my county. I attached my letters and their responses curious for feedback. I hate I when my county has bad info posted about it. The string starts at the bottom.

The other vendor I mentioned, aim surplus changed and will now ship to Napa Co.





Hello Xxxx
Thank you for your email.
We apologize for your inconvenience.
Due to the various state, county and municipal laws that exist, we are not always able to comply with each individual guideline.
*
Not all of the restrictions are based on laws on the books, but could be a company decision based on other particular concerns. These may include whether the state has law suits pending involving gun owners and*recent court decisions that may affect businesses like ours.
*
Also, in*some cases the states' laws are so vague that they could be interpreted unfavorably in the event a court action was ever involved.
*
We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you.
If you have any questions please contact us.
*
Enjoy the Outdoors!
Melissa Benson
Customer Service
Visit our Website at*

--- Original*
Received: 9/20/11 1111 AM CDT
To: SMG Products <products@sportsmansguide.com>
Subject: Re: Web 'Mail Us' Request


Thanks for the response. *But I am confused about a few of your statements on the website and your answers.*

1. *You say your legal team made the decision not to ship to major cities and counties in Ca due to quagmire of laws. *I agree gun laws in Ca are a quagmire. *But your logic is not sound. *Napa county is in 38th place on the list out of 58 counties and certainly is not a major county nor does it have major cities. *So I don't understand, if your legal team limits because of *being a major county, why is Napa Co. on the list but not Solano or any of the other *major much larger counties?

2. *Your website is misleading and spreads misinformation. *It says "Warning" ammo cannot be shipped to Napa Co. *This is not true. *Your company has chosen not to ship ammo. You are helping to spread misinformation which never helps any of us in CA fighting to change the silly gun laws. *Your web site should say what you just told me
Our companies legal team has made a corporate decision to not ship any ammunition to the major cities or counties in California
I believe more folks would support your company if you posted that as your reason for not shipping.
Stating, *"warning" ammo cannot be shipped to Napa Co is very misleading and implies it's illegal, what else would you be warning them about? * I volunteer with*Calguns.net*to help educate people on what gun laws really are in CA and work to help get them changed, and we are winning battles. * But it does not help when companies spread fear and uncertainty.

If there is a law I am unaware of I apologize but I am pretty confident there are none, as many folks do ship ammo here legally. *As a company it's your choice to not ship ammo to CA but it's irresponsible to spread misinformation. *I can't buy ammo from you because of your policy, not the law, *but I will not make any purchases of other products from your company unless the "warning" cannot ship statement is corrected. I buy a lot of *sportsmans type stuff and was interested in joining the buyers club. *I will wait to hear your answer before posting this string on website for other members (currently over 70,000 and growing) to read and make up their own minds whether or not to buy anything from your company. * I have attached another note below from a vendor who was mistaken about Napa co. ammo laws and they fixed it. *It's your right to choose not to sell and I respect that, but not right to mislead and warn people about something that's perfectly legal.

Regards

Xxxxxxx
Napa Co. Resident
NRA member
CRPA member
Calguns member and volunteer.



Dear Xxx
Thank you for your email.
Sorry for the inconvenience on ammunition purchases to California. Our companies legal team has made a corporate decision to not ship any ammunition to the major cities or counties in California. This is put in place basically because of the quagmire of silly laws in your state and our company wanting to stay on the legal side of these.
If you have any questions, please contact us.
*
Thanks for shopping Sportsman's Guide!
Chris Wilson
Customer Service Products
Visit our Website at*

---*
Received: 9/18/11 508 PM CDT
To:*custserv@sportsmansguide.com
Subject: Web 'Mail Us' Request

An email was submitted through the*http://www.sportsmansguide.com/*mailus form:

================================================== ====================
Name:
================================================== ====================
Account:*
Order:*
================================================== ====================
Message: Hello, your site says you will not ship ammunition to Napa county. I have lived in Napa county for many years and know of no law prohibiting ammo sales. *I have asked many law enforcement folks and legal folks at my gun club and there are no laws restricting Ammo in Napa Co. *Could you please provide the actual penal code or other reference thats restricts ammo sales to Napa Co. *We would love to purchase your products. *We understand CA can be a quagmire of silly laws but there appears to be nothing prohibiting ammo sales to Napa Co. I am a NRA, Calguns, and CRPA member. *Myself and many of my fellow members try to educate vendors on CA laws. *Many vendors get confused by the condor lead free zone laws. *Napa co is not in the zone and the condor law only prohibits using lead ammo in a condor zone, nothing at all about selling it. **Curious to hear your answer and anxious to buy some of your product.

Sincerely xxxxxx
Sent from my iPad

On Sep 20, 2011, at 6:42 AM, SMG Products <products@sportsmansguide.com> wrote:




------ Please do not remove your unique tracking number! ------
<<#588289-1923674#>>
Sent from my iPad

[oni.dori]

If politicians are so arrogant as to pass laws abrogating the ability of a parent to make the decision on behalf of their kids diet, I cannot find fault with an online retailer that chooses to do business or not do business in a state that historically has shown themselves to be hostile to that industry.

See, that's the problem though. It isn't just the arrogant politicians, it's the LAZY parents/people that don't want to think for themselves or take responsibility for their own actions (ie. having kids). They are content just mooing along in life and being told how to think/what to do so that they don't have to put out any effort taking responsibility for what they do. That way, when something goes wrong or doesn't go the way they want, the can whine about how it's someone else's fault.

[FishNFool]

I guess I just won't buy anything from these guys

[Wernher von Browning]

Well, it is Sportsman's Guide after all

I guess I just won't buy anything from these guys

You're attempting to deal with Sportsman's Guide -- one of the most incompetent outfits in the field. Even if they shipped to your county, you're better off shopping elsewhere. Incompetent customer support, bait-n-switch pricing, you name it...

There are too many stories to get into their astounding incompetence. Poke around on them there Interwebs for more.

[FishNFool]

Yes I figured that out. I just got ticked that they were spreading bad info about my county (Napa)