Online ammo retailer refusing to ship to ventura county

[glock22fs]

I need some help from some people who can call up seven springs armory in arizona and explain that it is not illegal for them to sell ammo to ventura county residents.

I wanted to buy some ammo from them online so I did what I always do as a resident of Kalifornia and looked at their shipping policies. Low and behold they say on their website they will not ship to CA. They have good prices so instead of finding my ammo elsewhere I called them and asked why and was told they do sell ammo to some parts of CA. When I told him I live in Ventura he said there is a municipal code in ventura county which prohibits them from selling ammo to ventura residents. I know this is not true and tried to explain that to them but they were adamant that there was. I am hoping someone with a deeper understanding of the law can explain the real laws to them

Thanks

[dieselpower]

condor reserve + FUD = get another source of ammo.

[KALIDAWG8996]

What are you ordering? There is a group buy going on for pistol ammo in commercial sales. There are various other vendors to go to. Their loss.....

[glock22fs]

Just some 45. I am going to stay with factory loads for this order as it is going to be used to break in a new toy i should be getting in a bit. Also I am going to be out of SoCal for a while so I cant really participate in the group buy.

I am going to end up buying from someone else but I feel we should educate these people. They're not refusing to sell ammo to me maliciously, they are just confused by California's crazy laws and dont want to expose themselves to any legal liability. Why not educate them and have them stop spreading FUD?

[sevenspringsarmory]

I need some help from some people who can call up seven springs armory in arizona and explain that it is not illegal for them to sell ammo to ventura county residents.

I wanted to buy some ammo from them online so I did what I always do as a resident of Kalifornia and looked at their shipping policies. Low and behold they say on their website they will not ship to CA. They have good prices so instead of finding my ammo elsewhere I called them and asked why and was told they do sell ammo to some parts of CA. When I told him I live in Ventura he said there is a municipal code in ventura county which prohibits them from selling ammo to ventura residents. I know this is not true and tried to explain that to them but they were adamant that there was. I am hoping someone with a deeper understanding of the law can explain the real laws to them

Thanks

Sir,

I appreciate that you are passionate about helping bring good prices on ammo to the residents of California and Ventura. I would however ask that you edit a few of your statements.

What my website plainly says on the first page and in all our policies is that yes we will sell to CA residents. What we won't do is sell to residents of specific counties and cities. You being a resident of Ventura are in one of those counties. Ventura does has a municipal code which potentially exposes me to criminal/civil liabilities.

Furthermore, I told you that I am not a large corporation like some of my competition and I am unwilling to face the risks like some of them are. I additionally informed you that unlike some of my competition I am not willing to face the potentiality of some gung-ho DA in Ventura who wants to make a name for him/herself by having a warrant issued for my arrest for non-compliance with the Ventura code.

I find it offensive that you would encourage people to call me and waste my time with banter about how it isn't illegal when the likelihood of those callers being Bar Members in the State of California much less Ventura is slim; that the likelihood that I will change my policy prior to Ventura County pulling their head out of the sand slim; that you are wasting time. I do however encourage you to contact your County Board Members and encourage them change the law, voicing your opinion and encouraging others to voice their opinion to the politicians will go much further than wasting time on pointless banter with somebody who thinks just like you for the most part.

I do take it as a compliment that you want to purchase ammo from me insomuch as our prices are extremely competitive and to that end I say thank you.

Best regards,

Bryan
Managing Partner
Seven Springs Armory LLC

https://www.sevenspringsarmory.com

[Wernher von Browning]

See

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=155514

and

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5.pdf

Search for Ventura. It's not even mentioned.

Somewhere somebody planted a rumor and it took. Win for the anti-gunners. This unsourced rumor has a few gun retailers scared. Failing my suggestion that Calguns put out the official word on legal letterhead, there's nothing anybody can do about it except take money elsewhere.

I would like to see the exact civil code(s) that have these guys running scared; nobody has EVER been able to cite those. If we could see those, then we could say, yes, we understand. Without that, it sounds like "He violated the Unwritten Law!" (what's that?) (nobody knows, it's not written down anywhere).

[Wernher von Browning]

I wanted to buy some ammo from them online...

Yes, what are you ordering? (Exact brand, type, caliber, number of rounds). Chances are I can find a competitive, if not cheaper, retailer who is willing to ship to you.

[glock22fs]

any reasonable quality (Federal, Remington, Winchester, PMC, Speer, S&B, etc)
45 acp
standard 230 gr ball
1000 rounds

I have found a few places, but with shipping to Kali it a good bit pricier

[ke6guj]

What my website plainly says on the first page and in all our policies is that yes we will sell to CA residents. What we won't do is sell to residents of specific counties and cities. You being a resident of Ventura are in one of those counties. Ventura does has a municipal code which potentially exposes me to criminal/civil liabilities.

can you post this municipal code you talk about?

[Connor P Price]

Sir,

I appreciate that you are passionate about helping bring good prices on ammo to the residents of California and Ventura. I would however ask that you edit a few of your statements.

What my website plainly says on the first page and in all our policies is that yes we will sell to CA residents. What we won't do is sell to residents of specific counties and cities. You being a resident of Ventura are in one of those counties. Ventura does has a municipal code which potentially exposes me to criminal/civil liabilities.

Furthermore, I told you that I am not a large corporation like some of my competition and I am unwilling to face the risks like some of them are. I additionally informed you that unlike some of my competition I am not willing to face the potentiality of some gung-ho DA in Ventura who wants to make a name for him/herself by having a warrant issued for my arrest for non-compliance with the Ventura code.

I find it offensive that you would encourage people to call me and waste my time with banter about how it isn't illegal when the likelihood of those callers being Bar Members in the State of California much less Ventura is slim; that the likelihood that I will change my policy prior to Ventura County pulling their head out of the sand slim; that you are wasting time. I do however encourage you to contact your County Board Members and encourage them change the law, voicing your opinion and encouraging others to voice their opinion to the politicians will go much further than wasting time on pointless banter with somebody who thinks just like you for the most part.

I do take it as a compliment that you want to purchase ammo from me insomuch as our prices are extremely competitive and to that end I say thank you.

Best regards,

Bryan
Managing Partner
Seven Springs Armory LLC
www.sevenspringsarmory.com

Bryan, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that we appreciate you coming here and explaining your policy. However I believe your assertion to be incorrect. There is apparently some confusion that some companies have had regarding some of California's stranger laws regarding possession of lead ammunition which has led a few smaller outfits to believe shipping to Ventura to be regulated.

I recognize that you are a small company, smaller than Midway, Cabelas, Bass Pro Shops, maybe Natchezzs, Powder Valley, Ammoman, Ables, etc. But to say that they are willing to take bigger risks than you seems to be saying that they are knowingly violating a municipal code and knowingly risking being caught. Some of the bigger companies, Midway, Cabelas, and Bass Pro all have legal departments who would certainly advise them on issues like this. Do you really think that they would knowingly violate the law? The profit made by selling to ammunition to Ventura county certainly wouldn't offset the huge liability of knowingly breaking the law (if one existed.)

I mean no insult, but its a bit foolhardy to think that just because a company is big means it would knowingly violate a law. Certainly the bigger ones could afford the legal penalties, but the small amount of profit realized by selling to any particular county does not outweigh that risk and they know it. The only logical conclusion is that they know of no municipal code.

[Wernher von Browning]

any reasonable quality (Federal, Remington, Winchester, PMC, Speer, S&B, etc)
45 acp
standard 230 gr ball
1000 rounds

I have found a few places, but with shipping to Kali it a good bit pricier

CCI/Speer starts at 31 cents a round.
lowest priced PMC is 34 cents.
Shipping, you'll have to go through the individual dealers' listings to make sure they'll ship to you, and at what price.

Sending private e-mail with links.

[vintagearms]

Sir,

I appreciate that you are passionate about helping bring good prices on ammo to the residents of California and Ventura. I would however ask that you edit a few of your statements.

What my website plainly says on the first page and in all our policies is that yes we will sell to CA residents. What we won't do is sell to residents of specific counties and cities. You being a resident of Ventura are in one of those counties. Ventura does has a municipal code which potentially exposes me to criminal/civil liabilities.

Furthermore, I told you that I am not a large corporation like some of my competition and I am unwilling to face the risks like some of them are. I additionally informed you that unlike some of my competition I am not willing to face the potentiality of some gung-ho DA in Ventura who wants to make a name for him/herself by having a warrant issued for my arrest for non-compliance with the Ventura code.

I find it offensive that you would encourage people to call me and waste my time with banter about how it isn't illegal when the likelihood of those callers being Bar Members in the State of California much less Ventura is slim; that the likelihood that I will change my policy prior to Ventura County pulling their head out of the sand slim; that you are wasting time. I do however encourage you to contact your County Board Members and encourage them change the law, voicing your opinion and encouraging others to voice their opinion to the politicians will go much further than wasting time on pointless banter with somebody who thinks just like you for the most part.

I do take it as a compliment that you want to purchase ammo from me insomuch as our prices are extremely competitive and to that end I say thank you.

Best regards,

Bryan
Managing Partner
Seven Springs Armory LLC
www.sevenspringsarmory.com

Your referring to AB821. Your excuse is laughable.

[glock22fs]

sevenspringsarmory,

Let me just say I am not trying to bad mouth your business or waste your time. I am not really sure how to prove that something doesn't exist other than suggesting you look through the Muni codes like I have and see there is nothing in them which references ammunition. The only real references to firearms regard discharge. I hope you can take the time to look through the codes that there is nothing prohibiting you selling ammunition to Ventura.

Ventura Municipal Codes

http://www.municode.com/library/clientCodePage.aspx?clientID=10165

[socal2310]

Sir,

I appreciate that you are passionate about helping bring good prices on ammo to the residents of California and Ventura. I would however ask that you edit a few of your statements.

What my website plainly says on the first page and in all our policies is that yes we will sell to CA residents. What we won't do is sell to residents of specific counties and cities. You being a resident of Ventura are in one of those counties. Ventura does has a municipal code which potentially exposes me to criminal/civil liabilities.

Furthermore, I told you that I am not a large corporation like some of my competition and I am unwilling to face the risks like some of them are. I additionally informed you that unlike some of my competition I am not willing to face the potentiality of some gung-ho DA in Ventura who wants to make a name for him/herself by having a warrant issued for my arrest for non-compliance with the Ventura code.

I find it offensive that you would encourage people to call me and waste my time with banter about how it isn't illegal when the likelihood of those callers being Bar Members in the State of California much less Ventura is slim; that the likelihood that I will change my policy prior to Ventura County pulling their head out of the sand slim; that you are wasting time. I do however encourage you to contact your County Board Members and encourage them change the law, voicing your opinion and encouraging others to voice their opinion to the politicians will go much further than wasting time on pointless banter with somebody who thinks just like you for the most part.

I do take it as a compliment that you want to purchase ammo from me insomuch as our prices are extremely competitive and to that end I say thank you.

Best regards,

Bryan
Managing Partner
Seven Springs Armory LLC
www.sevenspringsarmory.com

As was noted by another poster, effective July 1, 2008 AB 821 prohibited the possession of lead core ammunition while hunting in areas considered to be habitat for the California Condor. This regulation impacts only those who are hunting (who must have lead free bullets in both their hunting weapon AND their sidearm). The regulation does not address the purchase or sale of ammunition, nor would it affect someone carrying a concealed firearm while hiking (so long as they are not hunting) or someone with a self-defense firearm on their campsite - assuming, of course, that they are following all other applicable laws.

To the very best of my knowledge neither Ventura County nor any incorporated city within the county has an ordinance prohibiting the possession, importation, sale or purchase of ammunition in person, mail order or online. The only thing Ventura County did was have the misfortune to exist within condor habitat. I have lived in this state for the better part of the last 28 years and in Ventura County for most of that; it is possible, albeit extremely unlikely, such an ordinance was passed at some point - which would make the inclusion of State Ammunition (a business in the city of Ventura) as one of the plaintiffs in one of the recent cases challenging AB 962 (the recently overturned statewide ban on mail order handgun ammunition) particularly ironic.

So far I have not been significantly impacted by this misapprehension as I have been content to wait for Ammoman to advertise a sale in a caliber I'm interested in, but if I ever find myself in a position to want to obtain a large amount of the cheapest ammunition I can find right now, it's going to really irk me to still have this going on.

And there isn't a darn thing we can do about it; sorry, I'm not golfing buddies with Greg Totten.

Ryan

[socal2310]

sevenspringsarmory,

Let me just say I am not trying to bad mouth your business or waste your time. I am not really sure how to prove that something doesn't exist other than suggesting you look through the Muni codes like I have and see there is nothing in them which references ammunition. The only real references to firearms regard discharge. I hope you can take the time to look through the codes that there is nothing prohibiting you selling ammunition to Ventura.

Ventura Municipal Codes
http://www.municode.com/library/clie...clientID=10165

Which shows that there is exactly one regulation concerning ammunition - a zoning requirement concerning the manufacture of ammunition.

Ryan