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Which Californa military bases ceded to the federal government?

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  • timdps
    CGN/CGSSA Contributor
    CGN Contributor
    • Feb 2007
    • 3458

    Which Californa military bases ceded to the federal government?

    Is there some way to determine which CA military bases have been ceded to the federal government?

    The reason for asking is regarding free state WWII reenactors coming into California with high cap mags. Can they bring them in unassembled, assemble them on lands ceded to the federal government, and then disassemble them for the trip home? See the first bolded paragraph below.

    Evidently there is a list of these properties - see last paragraph below.

    I did find this:
    Easy, affordable options for you to obtain the domain you want. Safe and secure shopping.


    110. The sovereignty and jurisdiction of this State extends to all
    places within its boundaries as established by the Constitution. The
    extent of such jurisdiction over places that have been or may be
    ceded to, purchased, or condemned by the United States is qualified
    by the terms of the cession or the laws under which the purchase or
    condemnation is made.



    111. The jurisdiction of the State over certain lands designated in
    the following statutes is subject to the cession of jurisdiction
    granted the United States by such statutes:
    (a) Statutes of 1854, Chapter 43, concerning Mare Island.
    (b) Statutes of 1859, Chapter 305, concerning Lime Point Bluff.
    (c) Statutes of 1861, Chapter 255, concerning land in the Counties
    of Marin, Mendocino, Humboldt, and Klamath.
    (d) Statutes of 1867-8, Chapter 76, concerning the site of the
    United States Mint in San Francisco.
    (e) Statutes of 1891, Chapter 106, concerning certain park and
    forest reservations.
    (f) Statutes of 1906 (Extraordinary Session), Chapter 58,
    concerning land in San Diego County.
    (g) Statutes of 1911, Chapter 675, concerning land in Riverside
    County.
    (h) Statutes of 1919, Chapter 51, concerning Yosemite National
    Park, Sequoia National Park, and General Grant National Park.
    (i) Statutes of 1927, Chapter 207, concerning Lassen Volcanic
    National Park.
    (j) Statutes of 1933, Chapter 845, concerning land in Lassen
    County.
    (k) Statutes of 1935, Chapter 328, concerning land particularly
    described therein.
    (l) Statutes of 1935, Chapter 340, concerning land in Solano
    County, adjacent to Benicia Arsenal Reservation.
    (m) Statutes of 1935, Chapter 580, concerning Benicia Arsenal
    Reservation, and adjacent land.
    (n) Statutes of 1941, Chapter 308, concerning an easement for
    lighthouse purposes in Ventura County.
    (o) Statutes of 1942 (Second Extraordinary Session), Chapter 3,
    concerning Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay.



    112. The State has accepted the retrocession of jurisdiction over
    certain lands by the following statutes:
    (a) Statutes of 1935, Chapter 828, concerning the Presidio in the
    City and County of San Francisco and Fort Baker in Marin County.
    (b) Statutes of 1941, Chapter 226, concerning the Presidio in the
    City and County of San Francisco.



    113. The Legislature of California hereby consents to the
    retrocession of jurisdiction by the United States of land within this
    state upon and subject to each and all of the following express
    conditions:
    (a) The United States must in writing have requested state
    acceptance of retrocession, and unless there is an officer of the
    United States empowered by a United States statute to cede
    jurisdiction, the request shall be by the act of Congress. The
    retrocession may return all jurisdiction to the state or may provide
    for concurrent jurisdiction.
    (b) When the conditions of subdivision (a) have been found and
    declared to have occurred and to exist, by the State Lands
    Commission, the commission shall hold a hearing to determine whether
    acceptance of the retrocession is in the best interests of the state.
    Notice of the hearing shall be published pursuant to Section 6061 in
    each county in which the land or any part of the land is situated
    and a copy of the notice shall be personally served upon the clerk of
    the board of supervisors of each such county. The State Lands
    Commission shall make rules and regulations governing the conditions
    and procedure of the hearings.
    (c) The determination of the State Lands Commission shall be final
    and jurisdiction accepted shall become effective when certified
    copies of its orders or resolutions have been recorded in the office
    of the county recorder of each county in which any part of the land
    is situated. The State Lands Commission shall keep copies of its
    orders or resolutions and make them available to the public upon
    request.


    115. All jurisdiction ceded to the United States by this article is
    limited by the terms of any retrocession of jurisdiction heretofore
    or hereafter granted by the United States and accepted by the State.



    118. The State consents to the use by the United States of the
    territorial waters of the State adjacent to any land on the coast of
    the State now or hereafter owned by or under the control of the
    United States, and occupied for military purposes, in connection with
    conducting target practice operations of any type on the land.
    Before any of the waters are used in connection with conducting
    target practice operations of any type the United States shall take
    all appropriate measures and shall make and publish necessary
    regulations for the protection of the person and property of all
    persons using the waters. The use herein consented to shall not be so
    exercised as to interfere unreasonably with the public use of the
    waters.
    This section shall not be construed to impose any liability
    whatsoever upon the State in connection with the use of the waters as
    herein set forth.



    119. Exclusive jurisdiction shall be and the same is hereby ceded
    to the United States over and within all of the territory which is
    now or may hereafter be included in those several tracts of land in
    the State of California set aside and dedicated for park purposes by
    the United States as "Kings Canyon National Park"; saving however to
    the State of California the right to serve civil or criminal process
    within the limits of the aforesaid park in suits or prosecutions for
    or on account of rights acquired, obligations incurred, or crimes
    committed in said State outside of said park; and saving further to
    the said State the right to tax persons and corporations, their
    franchises and property on the lands included in said park, and the
    right to fix and collect license fees for fishing in said park; and
    saving also to the persons residing in said park now or hereafter the
    right to vote at all elections held within the county or counties in
    which said park is situate. The jurisdiction granted by this section
    shall not vest until the United States through the proper officer
    notifies the State of California that it assumes police jurisdiction
    over said park.


    126. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, general or
    special, the Legislature of California hereby cedes concurrent
    criminal jurisdiction to the United States within land held by the
    United States upon and subject to each and all of the following
    express limitations, conditions, and reservations, in addition to any
    other limitations, conditions, or reservations prescribed by law:
    (a) The lands must be held by the United States for the erection
    of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful
    buildings, or other public purpose within the purview of clause 17 of
    Section 8 of Article I of the Constitution of the United States, or
    for the establishment, consolidation, and extension of national
    forests under the act of Congress approved March 1, 1911, (36 Stat.
    961) known as the "Weeks Act," or for any other federal purposes.
    (b) The cession must be pursuant to and in compliance with the
    laws of the United States.
    (c) The United States must in writing have requested the state to
    cede concurrent criminal jurisdiction within such land and subject to
    each and all of the conditions and reservations in this section and
    in Section 7 of Article X of the Constitution prescribed.

    (d) The State Lands Commission is authorized for the state to cede
    concurrent criminal jurisdiction to the United States, upon having
    found and declared that the conditions and reservations prescribed in
    subdivisions (a), (b), (c), and (g) have occurred and exist and that
    the cession is in the interest of the state. Certified copies of its
    orders or resolutions making these findings and declarations shall
    be recorded in the office of the county recorder of each county in
    which any part of the land is situated. The State Lands Commission
    shall keep copies of its orders or resolutions and make them
    available to the public upon request. The purposes for which
    concurrent criminal jurisdiction is ceded shall be specified in and
    made a part of the orders or resolutions.
    (e) Jurisdiction ceded pursuant to this section continues only so
    long as the land continues to belong to the United States and is held
    by it for the purpose for which jurisdiction is ceded in accordance
    and in compliance with each and all of the limitations, conditions,
    and reservations in this section prescribed, or for five years,
    whichever period is less.
    (f) "Land held by the United States", as used in this section
    means: (1) lands acquired in fee by purchase or condemnation, (2)
    lands owned by the United States that are included in the military
    reservation by presidential proclamation or act of Congress, (3)
    leaseholds acquired by the United States over private lands or
    state-owned lands, and (4) any other lands owned by the United States
    including, but not limited to, public domain lands that are held for
    a public purpose.
    (g) In ceding concurrent criminal jurisdiction, the Legislature
    and the state reserve jurisdiction over the land, water, and use of
    water with full power to control and regulate the acquisition, use,
    control, and distribution of water with respect to the land affected
    by the cession.
    (h) In ceding concurrent criminal jurisdiction, the Legislature
    and the state except and reserve to the state all deposits of
    minerals, including oil and gas, in the land, and to the state, or
    persons authorized by the state, the right to prospect for, mine, and
    remove the deposits from the land.
    (i) Concurrent criminal jurisdiction shall vest when certified
    copies of the State Lands Commission's orders or resolutions, making
    such finding or declaration, have been recorded in the office of the
    county recorder of each county in which any part of the land is
    situated.
    The finding and declaration of the State Lands Commission provided
    for in subdivision (d) shall be made only after a public hearing.
    Notice of the hearing shall be published pursuant to Section 6061 in
    each county in which the land or any part of the land is situated and
    a copy of the notice shall be personally served upon the clerk of
    the board of supervisors of each such county. The State Lands
    Commission shall make rules and regulations governing the conditions
    and procedure of the hearings, which shall provide that the cost of
    publication and service of notice and all other expenses incurred by
    the commission shall be borne by the United States.
    The provisions of this section do not apply to any land or water
    areas heretofore or hereafter acquired by the United States for
    migratory bird reservations in accordance with Sections 10680 to
    10685, inclusive, of the Fish and Game Code.



    127. In addition to other records maintained by the State Lands
    Commission, the commission shall prepare and maintain an adequate
    index or record of documents with description of the lands over which
    the United States acquired jurisdiction pursuant to Section 126 of
    this code or pursuant to any prior state law. Said index shall record
    the degree of jurisdiction obtained by the United States for each
    acquisition.
    Last edited by timdps; 03-08-2011, 12:13 PM.
  • #2
    Librarian
    Admin and Poltergeist
    CGN Contributor - Lifetime
    • Oct 2005
    • 44633

    If the Feds still own them, it's seems to me pretty unlikely that re-enactors will be welcome. Ordinarily, it is transfer going the other way - McClellan and Mather in Sacramento, Hamilton in Novato, the Naval Weapons Station in Concord, for examples I'm personally aware of, all went or are going Feds to local.

    I understand California's large-capacity magazine law is complete nonsense, but even in that light I fail to see the benefit of all the attention it gets.
    ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

    Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!

    Comment

    • #3
      Paul S
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2010
      • 1847

      I may be off base here...but it is my belief that the military base thing is just the opposite. Federal military installations are either Federal (obviously) or they have been turned over to the state of California. Camp San Luis is a prime example. I think the Feds came first in all the military bases in the state.
      Then within the past 10-15 years there has been the mixed bag of closures and turn overs to the state.

      Don't take my view to the bank just yet...wait and see what others more knowledgeable than I have to say when they chime in.

      If the reenactment takes places only on Federal property you'd probably be safe to assemble the mags while reenacting...then disassemble them on the fed property in advance of your trip home. If the reenactment activities are taking place on a State owned military installation (ala Camp San Luis I'd say your up a tree so to speak)
      Last edited by Paul S; 03-08-2011, 12:45 PM. Reason: Spelling error
      Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

      Comment

      • #4
        timdps
        CGN/CGSSA Contributor
        CGN Contributor
        • Feb 2007
        • 3458

        Originally posted by Paul S

        If the reenactment takes places only on Federal property you'd probably be safe to assemble the mags while reenacting...then disassemble them on the fed property in advance of your trip home. If the reenactment activities are taking place on a State owned military installation (ala Camp San Luis I'd say your up a tree so to speak)
        Understood. The question is: How does one determine whether a base has been ceded to the feds.

        The primary base we use is Camp Roberts where we just had a large battle (370 WWII reenactors). Other base reenactments have happened at Camp San Luis Obispo, Camp Parks and Fort Ord.

        Some photos of last weekends event. Lots of WWII armor at this battle:

        Explore this photo album by George Harris Nicholas on Flickr!

        Store your photos and videos online with secure storage from Photobucket. Available on iOS, Android and desktop. Securely backup your memories and sign up today!


        Tim

        Comment

        • #5
        • #6
          stix213
          AKA: Joe Censored
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Apr 2009
          • 18998

          So wait a second, if the state has ceded criminal jurisdiction over to the feds, doesn't that mean we can go there and assemble hi cap mags from kits, and since we are already in California we can just go home with them? (since we aren't importing them into the state, as you are already in the state)

          Comment

          • #7
            Paul S
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2010
            • 1847

            Originally posted by timdps
            Understood. The question is: How does one determine whether a base has been ceded to the feds.

            The primary base we use is Camp Roberts where we just had a large battle (370 WWII reenactors). Other base reenactments have happened at Camp San Luis Obispo, Camp Parks and Fort Ord.
            Fort Ord no longer exists. The property now belongs to the UC system.
            Camp San Luis is owned by the State of California. I would think California law would apply to the magazine issue. (notice I think..sorry but not the same as I know)
            I'm not sure whether Camp Roberts / Hunter Ligget was turned over to the state or is still federal property.

            How about telephone calls to the base commanders at the various installations proposed or scheduled for use? Don't know if that's a viable solution but it is the only one I can think of at the moment.

            I understand your concern but I'm not really sure how to lock in an answer for you. Best of luck my friend
            Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

            Comment

            • #8
              Southwest Chuck
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2009
              • 1942

              Originally posted by stix213
              So wait a second, if the state has ceded criminal jurisdiction over to the feds, doesn't that mean we can go there and assemble hi cap mags from kits, and since we are already in California we can just go home with them? (since we aren't importing them into the state, as you are already in the state)
              That's what I was thinking. You would not be importing them into the state, but you would be importing them into the state's jurisdiction. Could doing that be construed as still importation? Interesting question
              Originally posted by Southwest Chuck
              I am humbled at the efforts of so many Patriots on this and other forums, CGN, CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPF, MDS etc. etc. I am lucky to be living in an era of a new awakening of the American Spirit; One that embraces it's Constitutional History, and it's Founding Fathers vision, especially in an age of such uncertainty that we are now in.
              Originally posted by toby
              Go cheap you will always have cheap and if you sell, it will sell for even cheaper. Buy the best you can every time.
              ^^^ Wise Man. Take his advice

              Comment

              • #9
                timdps
                CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                CGN Contributor
                • Feb 2007
                • 3458

                Originally posted by Paul S
                How about telephone calls to the base commanders at the various installations proposed or scheduled for use?
                That would be far too simple....but that is what I will do when I shake this bug...

                Thanks,

                Tim

                Comment

                • #10
                  socalblue
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 811

                  Virtually all military (non national Guard) installations are fully owned property of the US Government. In some cases (LA AFB was one until it consolidated) the military also leases land from a private owner or the state. The leased part is normally, but not always for base housing purposes.

                  What we see happening the past few years is military installations closed & released to the state or sold as surplus.

                  Comment

                  • #11
                    OleCuss
                    Calguns Addict
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 8102

                    Pretty sure Camp Roberts is considered a state asset - certainly run by the California Army National Guard.

                    Hunter-Liggett may be federal. Pretty sure it is a Army Reserve asset.
                    CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that).

                    Comment

                    • #12
                      timdps
                      CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                      CGN Contributor
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 3458

                      Originally posted by OleCuss
                      Pretty sure Camp Roberts is considered a state asset - certainly run by the California Army National Guard.

                      Hunter-Liggett may be federal. Pretty sure it is a Army Reserve asset.

                      I guess the base URLs give away the status.

                      Travis: http://www.travis.af.mil/

                      Hunter-Liggett: http://www.liggett.army.mil/sites/local/home.asp

                      Camp Roberts: http://www.calguard.ca.gov/Pages/default.aspx

                      Thanks for the help folks! It was worth a look...

                      Tim

                      Comment

                      • #13
                        Jizo
                        Member
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 162

                        Look up BRAC . (Base Realignment And Closure) . Many BRAC'd bases have been turned over to state governments.

                        Comment

                        • #14
                          Technowizard
                          Member
                          • Feb 2006
                          • 100

                          Interesting question...

                          The first thought that comes to mind would be to work with the base commander (or other authorized individual) about taking temporary possession of the magazines. They would at that point become military/federal property, and their use would... in theory... become an authorized utilization of military/federal property while within the base commander's jurisdiction (aka the base premises). You wouldn't even need to disassemble them so long as they were shipped via common courier directly to the base's logistics/supply squadron. After the re-enactment, the base could relinquish the property back to the original owners, and ship them to a legal location, or disassemble and return them to you right there on the spot.

                          Another idea would be to see if the base can procure the magazines themselves... seeing as the objects in question are original military equipment to begin with. Of course there might be a serious shortage of German/Japanese antique magazines laying around for them to order!

                          Again this was just a thought, and it would certainly depend on how much trouble the base commander wants to go through to have such a display take place at his/her installation. Either way, good luck with everything!
                          sigpic

                          Comment

                          • #15
                            RudyN
                            Senior Member
                            • May 2007
                            • 2281

                            As an aside, I had a great time in Camp Roberts this past weekend. Now back to your regularly scheduked program.
                            Rudy N
                            NRA BENEFACTOR MEMBER
                            CRPA MEMBER

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