SB 124: 2011 DeLeon Ammunition Bill

[SwissFluCase]

So far none of us have figured out exactly what this bill is supposed to accomplish. That in itself should indicate that it is unconstitutionally vague.

This could go both ways:

A) It would be a felony to load marshmallows into primed .38 special cases and shoot at tin foil targets

or

b) Steel core 9mm ammo would be OK, so long as it was only designed and intended to be cheap

Confused?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

[SupportGeek]

After reading it, seems to me its an attempt to cause as much ammunition as possible to be illegal. "penetrating metal" is vague, all metal? Does tinfoil count then? Even a 22LR FMJ will penetrate clean through a refrigerator with little problem, which is aluminum and/or thin sheet steel.
Cant we introduce an amendment that will force any politician to be ejected from their state seat/position if they attempt to introduce any legislation that is unconstitutional? Make it retroactive too so that we can have him dropped sooner.

[RedFord150]

Sen. De Leon on Fox News LA-SB124

State Senator De Leon was just interviewed on Fox News LA by Carlos Anescua. De Leon discussed AB962 without referring to it as AB962. Instead. he kept talking about 'Cop Killer' Bullets becoming available after a 29 year ban. This was his whole piece. No mention of ammo registration. He than went on to say the NRA went 'Judge Shopping' to get the injunction. Carlos Anescua pointed out that vague language was the reason for the injunction. De Leon went on to say he drafted AB124 to clarify what handgun ammunition is. Anescua asked if De Leon was going after 2A. De Leon says 2A adddresses firearms, not ammunition.
At the end, De Leon says ammunition is sold without control. Anyone fresh out of prison can buy all the ammo they want and we need to control the ammunition.
LAPD Chief Charlie Beck appeared with De Leon and clearly supports De Leon's view. LASD Sheriff Lee Baca was also credited as supporting De Leon, as well as several other chiefs.
Look out for SB124.

[Paul S]

Crackpot that he may be....do not ignore Deleon. When he gets the main players in Southern California law enforcement on his team that is no small feat
The average voter who is neither gun savy nor a gun owner will automatically be convinced DeLeon is some sort of savior. The very sound of "cop killer bullets" just makes the anti's swoon. We can kavetch to each other all we want...but keep your eye on the prize and the very skillful political moves DeLeon is making.

Me thinks he plays the bumbling legislator on purpose.

[Jack L]

I can only assume each type of ammo would have to be listed just like a handgun list in CA. otherwise it's still vague. A 18" shotgun can be concealed under a long coat. Will he try to say that next time?

Not all sheriffs are ignorant of politicians and do not fall for this kind of nonsense. Many sheriffs in CA do not like this ammo ban and they do not like the fact this does nothing regarding crime. This is a court fight and debate that will not end anytime soon. Game on CA gun owners!


God Bless John Moses Browning..........Utah has it right. Last night MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell called John M. Browning, "The Merchant Of Death". O'Donnell tongue lashed Utah good for making the 1911 the state gun. O'Donnell conveniently forgets one of the only reason Mr. O'Donnell is able to have a nightly show is because John Browning invented a superior weapons system that was used in many wars to allow us our freedoms. God Bless the Browning 1911 and the Browning Automatic Rifle as well as many other exceptional firearms that gave the USA her freedoms we enjoy.

[ALSystems]

This is so vaguely written that it could ban all ammunition for firearms as well as ammunition used in various type of toy guns. It is very easy to penetrate metal such as an aluminum soda can or aluminum foil. Tinfoil hats are probably considered body armour now.

[GettoPhilosopher]

Is this just "in addition to" AB 962, or would it replace AB 962? Because as of now, AB 962 is unenforceable and defunct. To keep AB 962 as valid law, dont they have to appeal the court's decision successfully?

Furthermore, I dont see anything in this new bill that would restrict the online sale of handgun ammunition, unless I am missing something? It seems to be more about defining what "handgun ammunition" is (which is still REALLY vague), armor piercing ammunition, and using body armor while committing a crime.

What am I missing here?

I think I finally got the "logic", lemme explain and then you good folks can correct me if I'm wrong.

*AB962 tries to ban handgun ammo sales without various stupid restrictions
*AB962 is overthrown due to unconstitutionally vague language about what constitutes "handgun ammo"
*DeLeon says if the stock CA definition of handgun ammo is unconstitutionally vague in AB962, it's only a matter of time before We, The Boogeymen get a court ruling saying that definition is unconstitutionally vague, period.
*This would make enforcement of other provisions, like the AP handgun ammo ban, dubious at best
*DeLeon takes a strategic step back, decides to first "reinforce" the AP bans, and then once those are solidified he can reintroduce a AB962 with new (allegedly non-vague) wording

As I see it, he's actually using his head, despite all the "lol dumazz" reactions.

[timdps]

What pistol, revolver or other firearm that uses 5.56/.223 or any other rifle ammo is capable of being concealed upon the person?

ALL handguns are defined as "capable of being concealed upon the person", so AK and AR pistols are legally defined as "capable of being concealed upon the person". This law appears to make 5.56/.223 and 7.62x39 magically turn into "handgun ammunition" when used in an AK or AR pistol.

All 5.56/.223 and 7.62x39 will penetrate ballistic vests, so IMO this law is an attempt to completely ban these calibers of ammo.

Tim

[timdps]

I think I finally got the "logic", lemme explain and then you good folks can correct me if I'm wrong.

*DeLeon takes a strategic step back, decides to first "reinforce" the AP bans, and then once those are solidified he can reintroduce a AB962 with new (allegedly non-vague) wording

The "new" definition of handgun ammo is already in this bill:

The bill would further omit reference to ammunition primary designed for use in a rifle and instead define "handgun ammunition designed to penetrate metal or armor" to mean ammunition, except a shotgun shell, capable of penetrating a body vest or body shield when discharged from a handgun.

ANY ammo fired from a handgun is defined as handgun ammo, so 5.56/.223 and 7.62x39 would become handgun ammo. He is eliminating the exception "ammunition primary designed for use in a rifle" that would exempt these two calibers from being considered handgun ammo.

Tim

[J.D.Allen]

Then there's this court decision that may have some effect on all this. I'm no legal expert, but seems to me ammunition is covered by the 2nd. I often hear anti's saying that ammunition isn't covered by the 2nd Amendment so we can just take away all the ammo.

https://www.islandlawblog.com/washin...ond-amendment/

Didn't Heller specifically state that the 2A protects FUNCTIONAL firearms? How is a firearm functional without ammunition?

[bodger]

Rome is burning and DeLeon is playing his anti-gun fiddle.

Pretty ironic, a bankrupt state in which the legislators are spending time on feel good laws that will supposedly eradicate "cop killer" bullets.

Forget jobs and the economy, let's do things that make us look good when we run for re-election.

Anti-gun is job security for the likes of DeLeon. He'll never stop doing this.

[SwissFluCase]

It is time to mock the "cop killer bullets" line like we did with the "for the children" line. The one weapon that will end DeLeon's career is ridicule. No politician can withstand ridicule, and no politically charged phrase can withstand it either.

I think that is our best bet to nip DeLeon in the bud. DeLeon is certainly making it easy for us in this regard.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

[b_k]

[Don29palms]

ALL handguns are defined as "capable of being concealed upon the person", so AK and AR pistols are legally defined as "capable of being concealed upon the person". This law appears to make 5.56/.223 and 7.62x39 magically turn into "handgun ammunition" when used in an AK or AR pistol.

Tim

Can you please refer me to where it says that all hand guns are capable of being concealed upon the person? I can't find it.

[stix213]

Still not defining handgun ammo... lol