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**dantodd** · 11-12-2010, 2:03 PM

I asked the same question, there are a number of other places, such as the description of what the license is to look like and the application where it makes it clear that the legislature intended for there to be only specific firearms covered by the CCW when it is issued.

**dantodd** · 11-12-2010, 2:06 PM

Here is one example:

12051. (a)(1) The standard application form for licenses described in paragraph (3) shall require information from the applicant including, but not limited to, the name, occupation, residence and business address of the applicant, his or her age, height, weight, color of eyes and hair, and reason for desiring a license to carry the weapon. Applications for licenses shall be filed in writing, and signed by the applicant. Any license issued upon the application shall set forth the licensee's name, occupation, residence and business address, his or her age, height, weight, color of eyes and hair, the reason for desiring a license to carry the weapon, and shall, in addition, contain a description of the weapon or weapons authorized to be carried, giving the name of the manufacturer, the serial number, and the caliber. The license issued to the licensee may be laminated.

**CHS** · 11-12-2010, 2:42 PM

That's what I love about Arizona. It's a license to carry a concealed weapon. Period. ANY (legal) weapon. Not just guns

**zhyla** · 11-12-2010, 3:02 PM

Originally posted by dantodd

Here is one example:

Ah, I missed that part. But that details what the application should look like, it doesn't say explicitly "the Sheriff can pick which guns you can carry."

**dantodd** · 11-12-2010, 3:06 PM

Correct, the license should list all the weapons you quote on the application. The sheriff doesn't have statutory discretion to only list X number if guns or only guns they feel you should be allowed to use.

**cmichini** · 11-12-2010, 3:38 PM

Originally posted by zhyla

I'm mainly just curious about this since my county is no-issue (or buddy-issue) at the moment. My understanding is when you get a CCW license you have to list which guns you will be carrying, you may also need to qualify with each of these, and you are limited to carrying that set of guns.

I was just kind of curious about this so I read thru 12050 once. The only piece about restrictions I could find is this:

I have two questions:

1. If the license is to "carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other
firearm ...", why is this being implemented as a license to carry only certain pistols? This seems a little burdensome; some people own a lot of guns and it seems easy to grab the wrong one on your way out. I wouldn't make this mistake but it seems easy enough to do.

2. What is the penalty for carrying the wrong gun (or violating the other restrictions)? Are you guilty of carrying a concealed weapon without a permit? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

Why, because although CA is forced to 'Allow' for issuance, their SOP to infringe on rights as much as possible affords them the ability to infringe it as much as they possibly can, reasonable or not.

Question 2 - probably yes. But note that if you're not committing any crime except carrying without a permit, it is a misdemeanor and not a (prohibiting) felony.
Warning: I'm not a lawyer so check that fact before going out on a limb.

**ap3572001** · 11-12-2010, 3:45 PM

I am an LEO for almost 20 years.
I can only carry handguns that are on my departments list. On and off duty.
I must carry at least on reload ( on and off duty ) .
I must use ONLY factory magazines on and off duty.
I must have a round in the chamber and if my pistol has a manual safety I SHALL NOT use it.
I must load my pistol with US made JHP ammo ONLY.

I GET TESTED WITH EVERY HANDGUN I CARRY ON AND OFF DUTY EVERY YEAR . AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR.

I am 100% FOR some control of what people with CCW will cary.

And that they get tested with those handguns.

**IrishPirate** · 11-12-2010, 3:49 PM

If you're going to carry concealed, you better be good enough with a gun to make sure you grab the right one before heading out. That's a stupid mistake that has no real justification. A gun is not a toy or a set of car keys, it comes with responsibility.

The catch all is "resonable restrictions".....it's also something we're trying to fight in court i'm sure. What's reasonable? in Placer county, you can't have a .22 caliber pistol on your CCW. What if the only gun someone owns is a .22? what if that's all they are comfortable using? what if that's all they can qualify with? It doesn't seem reasonable to me, but i guess it does to the sheriff. Some places only allow you to have 2 guns on your CCW. Reasonable? well if you believe the whole "you should get good with one gun and maybe a back up, and not waste your time with others so you'll stay proficient" mindset, then i guess it would be reasonable....but if you're damn proficient with 7 different pistols and you want to put them all on your CCW so you have options to choose from depending on your anticipated situation, you might disagree.

**dantodd** · 11-12-2010, 3:59 PM

Originally posted by ap3572001

I am an LEO for almost 20 years.
I can only carry handguns that are on my departments list. On and off duty.
I must carry at least on reload ( on and off duty ) .
I must use ONLY factory magazines on and off duty.
I must have a round in the chamber and if my pistol has a manual safety I SHALL NOT use it.
I must load my pistol with US made JHP ammo ONLY.

I GET TESTED WITH EVERY HANDGUN I CARRY ON AND OFF DUTY EVERY YEAR . AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR.

those are all restrictions that your employer put on you and have nothing to do with the law.

Originally posted by ap3572001

I am 100% FOR some control of what people with CCW will cary.

And that they get tested with those handguns.

Why do you think that the sheriff should be permitted to tell me what to carry?

Do you also support a reading comprehension test for voters? Or a spelling test for people who wish to exercise their first amendment rights?

**1JimMarch** · 11-12-2010, 4:09 PM

The original purpose was likely to prevent people carrying "drop guns".

On that basis, just listing what your carry guns are could probably survive strict scrutiny, although an argument can be made that guns you've DROSed can't be used as drop guns either - and the DROS records are easier for law enforcement to get!

**socalblue** · 11-12-2010, 4:20 PM

This is nothing more than a way of making sure the firearm(s) are inspected & CCW holder qualifies with what they are authorized to carry. NV (And other states) are similar.

IMO it's really not a burden, other than being locked to a serial number. Better I think to qualify with a make/model & be OK to carry anything in the same family (IE" Qualify with a Glock & OK to carry any Glock).

**Gray Peterson** · 11-12-2010, 4:23 PM

Originally posted by ap3572001

I am 100% FOR some control of what people with CCW will cary.

The sheriff's and police chiefs have zero legal authority to tell a CCW holder what you can and cannot carry. Their only discretion is good cause and good moral character.

They also do not have that authority to tell LEO's what to carry off-duty. See LEOSA (HR218).

**Gray Peterson** · 11-12-2010, 4:23 PM

Originally posted by socalblue

This is nothing more than a way of making sure the firearm(s) are inspected & CCW holder qualifies with what they are authorized to carry. NV (And other states) are similar.

There is no qualification requirement in state law.

**Glock22Fan** · 11-12-2010, 4:29 PM

The simple answer is "Because they can."

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