Legal question

[psmith]

thought I would add some to this thread. Just more info, might help some others.

I went to the court house to try to get a abstract of judgment, learned that (at least in Southern California) a abstract of judgment is put together when you do time. As I wasn't even sentenced to any time (whether it was served or put aside), it didn't exist for me.

I talked to the lady at the desk, who surprisingly was extremely nice and seemed interested in what I was saying (a pleasant surprise at that). I gave her my case # and told her that I should have been convicted of a misdemeanor, which she looked up and confirmed, and asked me what the problem was. I told her my background check shows a felony conviction on it, where she looked at the recent printout (10/22/2010) and tried to understand what was listed, where she confirmed that it didn't look right. She went and got my original court paperwork and started in with the piece of paper that I signed and initialed on the felony charge (pleading guilty), I then told her to please look at my sentencing, as part of my plea was consideration of reduction to a misdemeanor. She found the handwritten notes on the "Court Minutes - Pronouncement of Judgment" from sentencing day and said what I knew, you plead guilty to a felony, but at sentencing it was reduced to a misdemeanor, then they even still had it wrong, and at the expungment hearing, they reduced it AGAIN to misdemeanor before expungement. And how come none of this was in the DOJ report. So she went and took all my paperwork to her supervisor, who confirmed the mistakes and they made changes to my DOJ report as I stood there. She came back telling me that about 11 years ago, they changed the way that the reports are in the database, and when my "entry" was transfered to the new database, it looks like all the extra information got chopped off and since no one has ever complained or checked against it, it just stayed in the system wrong". She followed that up with, "or someone just didn't care enough to put in the information correctly". WOW, something that serious, something that follows you forever, I am just glad to have it all corrected.

The moral of the story here is that running a background check if you have ever done anything stupid, isn't a bad idea, I havent had my 2A rights for 9 years because of a typo.

At least that is what I think, I asked her if this was going to change my firearm possession rights (I know they cant really comment), she showed me the new entry in the DOJ paperwork on the on-line screen, where it contained the information that my charge was reduced to a misdemeanor, and said that It would be updated at midnight. I still had a little bit of concern, because if you have been following this, although I signed the felony guilty paperwork, at sentencing it was a misdemeanor, which I believe to be quite a bit different than, charge with a felony, and then later reduced to a misdemeanor. I guess all I really care about is getting my rights back.

I wonder if the PFEC or COE forms that I have sent out in the last 14 days are going to catch this new information, this might be one of those times where the delay and lag actually works to my advantage. Ever since I started this process, I have been eyeballing a new .223 lower, maybe I just just go run the DROS form. As I know now that I can legally answer the questions in the #12 area with the necessary "no" answers, its looking good, but may not be finished yet.

I certainly hope that my misfortune and stupidity can help anyone out there who thinks a bullet button is stupid, buying multiple 10 round mags and a good bullet button is a WHOLE hell of a lot easier and cheaper than not doing it...

will keep more updates coming.

[psmith]

Ok guys, one more question someone else who has had this experience might be able to help me with.

If you read above, you will see that this morning I was successful in getting a supervisor from the criminal offices help me update my record. The clerk helping me, showed me on her terminal what the new entries were and how it read now. She finished it off by stating that the system wouldn't update until midnight. She made no reference to the fact that she was editing internal court documents or the DOJ database. She made no reference to me needing to submit the changed paperwork to the DOJ, leaving me to believe that she was in the DOJ database. A friend who works in the traffic division in San Francisco lead me to believe that the terminals at the court house, don't have the ability to interact with the DOJ database, and that the changes were probably made in the court system. (It was my criminal background or rap sheet she was editing, I didn't know that the courts kept those type records in there database). She said nothing about contacting DOJ, or didn't "print" out the updated paperwork she was working on. Is it possible that what she is working on will just be submitted to DOJ? Does anyone experienced this personally to know how the dots get connected? Or am I treading new water here?

Thanks again.

[J-cat]

She was updating the court's record. Court clerks do not make entries in DOJ's database. You will need to get an anstract of judgment from the court and send it to DOJ with the 8706 form.

[psmith]

Okay, I am glad that I already mailed the forms that I mailed. I was told both her and her supervisor that abstract of judgment's are created for files/binders when people are sentenced jail time so warden/jail staff have a condensed all in one form to refer to. She said for civil, a JOA is also available with compensation paperwork for the same purpose, a all in one sheet for the person collecting money to have what they need against the party. Seems like would be a nice easy way for me to have it all in one place too, but she wasn't offering it up.

No worries, the same paperwork her and her supervisor looked at, is what I sent to the DOJ, should work, if not then I'm sure a print out of the courts records (why she didn't give me what she was typing I'm not sure in that case then?)

Thanks for following and the responses, much appreciated j-cat.

[psmith]

FYI: I went down to the court house again this morning. Again, they couldn't produce anything more than the paperwork I already had, and I got a confirmation from the clerk that yes, every night their updates are pushed and the DOJ files are updated. I talked to a different person at the same location. Just to triple check, I called the East County Superior Court of San Diego, and navigated into the Felony/DUI/In-Custody section and then hit the button to talk to a real human. I explained the situation one more time, and while on the phone, she looked up my case number, confirmed that what I was saying was what it said (she couldn't confirm it was changed, as it was changed, so the old stuff wasn't even there anymore), and that at midnight, their system integrates additions and changes with the DOJ system.

Maybe its new? I can only trust that after two visits, and a phone-call that technology has finally visited our County Court house?

Just thought I should mention it, who knows if someone else is reading this getting information for themselves? I already mailed the court minutes-pronouncement of judgment along with the 8706 form, which I understand will initiate another copy of my new report as well as a summary of whats happened from the DOJ. I'm pretty sure that upon receipt of this, I will be able to understand if when they received my 8706 and paperwork and made the changes, or that the updates were already there. I would assume that if the changes were not there, I would get a "changes have been made as of X, here is your new report", OR, I could get back a, "your current report already reflected this? What is it your trying to change?"

Thanks again everyone, all the PM's have been interesting and good reads.

[psmith]

I went down to the court house one more time, and talked to a supervisor, I really wanted to make sure that the fixed records were going to be sent to the DOJ, if not electronically, at least on paper. I was greeted by a supervisor who told me that my understanding of how the process works is correct, *BUT* that since the DOJ is so backed up right now, that if the clerk wants to (they are not obligated too she said), but if they want to, there is a DOJ number they can call, inform the DOJ that a faxed update of the court records is going to be faxed, where they can then fax it and get a confirmation from the DOJ that they got it. I guess my manners and being respectful through the whole thing helped me out, not only did she call me to tell me she was faxing it, she called me to confirm that they got it, and one last time to tell me they (the DOJ) made the updates and the record was corrected. I just got the last call yesterday. I still haven't gotten my PFEC or COE back, but I was told those could take months. Since I knew 12 days ago that I was legal to own firearms, 10 days ago I went down to the local store and bought a lower. I just checked with them now, and its ready to be picked UP!!!!! BIG *** SMILE...

Thank you to everyone, I only hope that my rambling and information about what I did can help someone else. 21 days ago I had given up on ever owning firearms again, ever hunting with my family, and dreading that I was going to have to watch someone else teach MY SON how to hunt and treat firearms with respect that he father should be showing him. Maybe this thread will also let someone who is on the boundary of doing something stupid or risking something (say, a hi cap mag) that ITS NOT WORTH IT. I KNOW HOW STUPID it is, but welcome to the Republic of Kalifornia, at least we can still have our rights given to us as privileges.



Thanks to all again...

[jtmkinsd]

I went down to the court house one more time, and talked to a supervisor, I really wanted to make sure that the fixed records were going to be sent to the DOJ, if not electronically, at least on paper. I was greeted by a supervisor who told me that my understanding of how the process works is correct, *BUT* that since the DOJ is so backed up right now, that if the clerk wants to (they are not obligated too she said), but if they want to, there is a DOJ number they can call, inform the DOJ that a faxed update of the court records is going to be faxed, where they can then fax it and get a confirmation from the DOJ that they got it. I guess my manners and being respectful through the whole thing helped me out, not only did she call me to tell me she was faxing it, she called me to confirm that they got it, and one last time to tell me they (the DOJ) made the updates and the record was corrected. I just got the last call yesterday. I still haven't gotten my PFEC or COE back, but I was told those could take months. Since I knew 12 days ago that I was legal to own firearms, 10 days ago I went down to the local store and bought a lower. I just checked with them now, and its ready to be picked UP!!!!! BIG *** SMILE...

Thank you to everyone, I only hope that my rambling and information about what I did can help someone else. 21 days ago I had given up on ever owning firearms again, ever hunting with my family, and dreading that I was going to have to watch someone else teach MY SON how to hunt and treat firearms with respect that he father should be showing him. Maybe this thread will also let someone who is on the boundary of doing something stupid or risking something (say, a hi cap mag) that ITS NOT WORTH IT. I KNOW HOW STUPID it is, but welcome to the Republic of Kalifornia, at least we can still have our rights given to us as privileges.



Thanks to all again...

Congratulations...I'm glad everything worked out for you in the end. It's amazing how a mistake in the past can haunt you years down the road...but being patient, and not losing your cool will get you a long way.

[johnthomas]

Now you can go hunting with your friend. Tell him to get on Calguns and see why, lol. Congratulations on being so tenacious with your rights. What I don't get is, look at all those folks that have the very same rights you fought so hard for that will never, ever use them.

[J-cat]

Congratulations. Glad it worked out.

[taperxz]

It is my understanding that even those people who loose their rights to own a firearm are still eligible to hunt with a bow. Congrats on your outcome!!

[zinfull]

Good job on clearing your record. If you are hunting in Colorado you may need to take a NRA safe hunting course in order to get a license.

jerry

[nicitaja]

Good Job P,

I told you you cant go wrong with CG and CGF, dont forget to help with the contributions when you can. I sat back and watched the whole thing evolve on you, pretty proud of ya cousin.... NOW, lets hope someone who crosses into Vegas and thinks nothing really serious can happen when bringing that hi-cap mag back home, had a chance to read this and see how for 14 years you havent been able to go shooting with the family, or teach your son proper gun etiquete, and thinks twice about it, they take your rights away in a moment, and not everyone gets lucky enough to get them back.

Hell, I HAVE large cap mags from grandpa given to me in the late 90's, know you know why I dont even risk it and run them, I'll just stop for 15 seconds and reload, a lot cheaper than a lawyer and missed work from incarceration, thats for sure...

[loather]

This is an excellent story. I'm glad you were able to regain your rights after having to deal with such a garbage charge.

I'm also glad that you're building another AR just to spite the talking heads in the state.

Congratulations!

[jeferd]

Boy, it shows that intelligent persistence pays off...nice job. What a great forum and insight from all the members here....Thanks Calguns!!