Bullet-Button legality?

[artherd]

"Is your AR expert unable to read the Penal Code or CCR?"

He has and still leans towards a Prince50 or SC..However, with the inputs of the others, I plan to get a BB sometime in the future. Build 1 is U15(done), Build 2 will be a Prince50, build 3 MMG and build 4 will be BB..

BTW, thanks again Ben for the Milpitas OLL efforts back in the day..Builds 1 and 2 will be using the OLL you help get..

S

Glad to have helped out! Man that brings back distant memories, thanks for being one of the first!

All PC reading asside, you still have to decide wether you feel OK doing 64MPH or would rather do 55, and I respect anyone's decision to err on the side of caution; so long as they do not preach said personal decision as law.

[edwardm]

The regulation specifically says a bullet is a tool.

You ask the court to take judicial notice of that piece of regulation and it's a non-issue for the jury. They have to take it as fact in the properly-written jury instructions.

In the Calgun's Shoot&Q thread, the Calgunner "peepshowal" says he was hassled by the the RO last Saturday. Even my local AR expert is having 2nd thoughts about BB vs Prince50 /Shooting conversions..Many more "jurors" may agree that a allen wrench is a tool vs a bullet tip.

After reading and search the other threads on the bullet button issue an update to the Calguns OLL FAQ is in order. I will also print out and carry the SB23 wording as sited by the others..

Thanks for everyones help..

[ZenMastaT]

Just for a bit of clarification (I'd hardly consider myself well informed on a topic as complex as this) - I was talking to a friend about this bullet button concept and how a bullet was defined as a tool by the laws quoted above. He mentioned to me that the law itself demanded magazines be removed via the usage of an "uncommon tool" which I suppose a bullet would not be, when considered in relation to a firearm.

Is there a clear answer here?

[hoffmang]

There is nothing in the law that requires anything other than a tool:

Penal Code 12276.1. says:

(a) (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:

It does not say:

(a) (1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept an attachable or detachable magazine and any one of the following:

The phrase "Detachable Magazine" is a specific defined term:

CCR 5469.
(a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool…

And the reason the term is defined that way is the SKS issue. In the 2000 Rulemaking that implemented SB-23. This is what they had to say about the SKS:

Comment

A1.12 - The SKS rifle with a detachable magazine cannot be changed without using a bullet tip as a tool, thus the regulations conflict with the specific listing of SKS rifles with detachable magazines in the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act. DOJ has no authority to contradict existing law.

DOJ Response

The Department disagrees with the comment because any magazine that requires the use of a bullet or any other tool for its removal is a fixed magazine, not a detachable magazine. The SKS with a true detachable magazine does not require a bullet or any other tool to remove and is a controlled assault weapon under Penal Code section 12276. Identifying a bullet as a tool allows for the proper categorization of an SKS with a fixed magazine. Therefore, the SKS referred to in the comment has a fixed, not detachable magazine.

From http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/fsor.pdf

[383green]

Just for a bit of clarification (I'd hardly consider myself well informed on a topic as complex as this) - I was talking to a friend about this bullet button concept and how a bullet was defined as a tool by the laws quoted above. He mentioned to me that the law itself demanded magazines be removed via the usage of an "uncommon tool" which I suppose a bullet would not be, when considered in relation to a firearm.

Is there a clear answer here?

The clear answer is that your friend is mistaken. The word "uncommon" is not used, and the law specifically states that a bullet tip is considered to be a "tool" for purposes of magazine removal.

[Surveyor]

The law on this is so clear that this topic is annoying. The A-holes that wrote this law spelled out in no uncertain terms the definition of detachable and what a tool is. If they had defined detachable as:

CCR 1234.
(a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that has a bright yellow "D" on the upper left side of said magazine and a thing that tells time on it...

then that would be the law we had to obey. All other magazines would be fine so long as they didn't have the dreaded "Yellow D". Consequently we would have products designed to follow that law (If it were real). I bet CWS and 10% would be selling mags with compliant red "D"'s on them.

They made the rules, we're just playing the game. Obviously the people who wrote the law wouldn't like the bullet button, but that's too bad.

Don't avoid the Bullet Button just because "Somebody" told you it's illegal. That's like driving 5 mph below the speed limit just because the cop next to you is. The law says you can't drive faster than the posted limits, not the slow moving cop in the next lane.

The law also says that a bullet tip is a tool.

[Gunwriter]

Update:
I spoke to a person at CA DOJ on 06/01/2012 and she told me that the DOJ "has no opinion" on the legality of the new Colt 6720CA (factory installed bullet button).

[taperxz]

Update:
I spoke to a person at CA DOJ on 06/01/2012 and she told me that the DOJ "has no opinion" on the legality of the new Colt 6720CA (factory installed bullet button).

No opinion because a fixed mag with 10 rounds or less, no matter what, does not meet the definition of a CA AW. (except as listed in roberti Roos)

They only tell you what's illegal, not legal.

[dantodd]

Update:
I spoke to a person at CA DOJ on 06/01/2012 and she told me that the DOJ "has no opinion" on the legality of the new Colt 6720CA (factory installed bullet button).

CA DoJ no longer gives "opinions" on such things.

However; the DoJ's firearms experts admitted that bullet buttons are legal in sworn testimony in Haynie v. Pleasanton see: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=429902

[NiteQwill]

Update:
I spoke to a person at CA DOJ on 06/01/2012 and she told me that the DOJ "has no opinion" on the legality of the new Colt 6720CA (factory installed bullet button).

This thread is over 5 years old...

[motorhead]

yet another outbreak. the zombie apocalypse is indeed upon us.

[alfred1222]

This thread is over 5 years old...

No sh*t... I think everyone knows that the bullet button is legal if used properly.

[ARShooterCA]

I agree it is super important to keep your gun legal to avoid a felony or confiscation of your entire gun collection. That is why I did a major search and found a number of tools that work with a bullet button. A magnetic button has the problem that is could fall off and get lost, as well as attaching something to your gun is illegal. I found a really simple clip drop tool called a "ThumBee". You slide it on your thumb and when you push the pen into the recess of the bullet button, the magazine releases right into your hand. This is the best product I have found so far and is 100% legal because it is an external tool.

[stix213]

I agree it is super important to keep your gun legal to avoid a felony or confiscation of your entire gun collection. That is why I did a major search and found a number of tools that work with a bullet button. A magnetic button has the problem that is could fall off and get lost, as well as attaching something to your gun is illegal. I found a really simple clip drop tool called a "ThumBee". You slide it on your thumb and when you push the pen into the recess of the bullet button, the magazine releases right into your hand. This is the best product I have found so far and is 100% legal because it is an external tool.

Welcome to Calguns.

[unusedusername]

5 years? Is this a record?