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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1
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Bullet Button: Haynie v. Pleasanton (8/4/16 9th affirms lower ct dismissal))
Bottom line first. The California Department of Justice has opined in print and on the record that Bullet Buttons are legal.
Last March, CGF filed Haynie v. Pleasanton. For strategic reasons (some of which remain) we had kept this case at a low profile. Some background. Mark Haynie was arrested February 7, 2009 by Pleasanton PD on the way back from Chabot with an OLL, bullet button correctly installed, an empty magazine well, and a cracked windshield that created the stop in the first place. He was arrested and forced to post bail of $60,000.00 ($6,000 to the bondsman out of his pocket.) CGF successfully defended him and obtained a finding of factual innocence. We then sued Pleasanton PD and CA DOJ. The original complaint is here. Pleasanton then offered to settle the case as to them by paying Mr. Haynie's $6000.00 in damages. CGF decided to facilitate the settlement by not insisting on it's legal fees. We amended the complaint against The California Department of Justice basically claiming that CA DOJ has a statutory duty under a constitutional avoidance theory to inform law enforcement and the 58 DA's that AR-15 (and other) like rifles with bullet buttons conform to the law and are legal long arms in California. Today, The California Department of Justice filed a motion to dismiss. Here are critical excerpts (emphasis added): Quote:
However, there is now clear evidence that the California Department of Justice opines on the record that properly installed bullet buttons with 10 round or less magazines create legal AR type firearms in California. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
Last edited by hoffmang; 05-08-2011 at 10:10 AM.. |
#2
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Ha!
This isn't bad! I thought it was something crazy, like an incompetent lawyer actually losing a BB criminal defense case, or something like that. . . Wow - nothing to see here - except for more WIN. The whole WINNING thing is not just a meme - it's an accurate reflection of our overall progress here. . . CUE: FGG! ALSO - I know people associate Don ONLY with Nordyke. That is error. DK works on many many cases, most of which do not appear here - and every single one that I know of has had a very positive outcome. We always need to remember that we are winning as much as 95 percent of the cases that we file (by "we" I mean everyone - not just CGF). I think sometimes we have battered spouse syndrome on this stuff - but that's OLD THINKING - the new thinking is that we are pretty much epically winning everything we touch. Last edited by oaklander; 05-06-2011 at 7:56 PM.. |
#6
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Quote:
-Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#7
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Ditto.
No bad news. Looks like DOJ is going to do everything they can to keep the BB from going to court and being codified in case law. Or did this case do exactly that?
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- Rich |
#11
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NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun and Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor California DOJ Certified Fingerprint Roller Ventura County approved CCW Instructor Utah CCW Instructor Offering low cost multi state CCW, private basic shooting and reloading classes for calgunners. CCW SAFE MEMBERSHIPS HERE KM6WLV |
#12
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Quote:
Thanks so much! |
#13
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This filing is an admission in a Federal Court by the Attorney General of California that a properly installed bullet button on an off list rifle is not a semiautomatic centerfire rifle with the capacity to accept a detachable magazine.
You can't get much more affirmative or official than that. It's in some ways more binding than an official AG "opinion" as it's a position taken in an adversarial Federal action. -Gene
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Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#14
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"Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement." Winston Churchill “Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can” Samual Adams |
#15
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Quote:
EDIT: Gene beat me to it
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington |
#16
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If a tool is required to remove the magazine, the rifle doesn't have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine. It's that simple!
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#17
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Right on!!!
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“This decision is a freedom calculus decided long ago by Colonists who cherished individual freedom more than the subservient security of a British ruler. The freedom they fought for was not free of cost then, and it is not free now.” Hon. Roger T. Benitez United States District Judge March 29, 2019 ____________ |
#18
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Quote:
We've been saying that since 2005
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- Rich |
#20
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#23
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That could probably be done with one single phone call to the right person. BUT, I'm NOT volunteering for yet another project LOL!!!
My wife already misses me. . . |
#25
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From Gene's post: Some background. Mark Haynie was arrested February 7, 2009 by Pleasanton PD on the way back from Chabot with an OLL, bullet button correctly installed, and empty magazine well, and a cracked windshield that created the stop in the first place.
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#26
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Having a magazine in the well is of no importance...the firearm is incapable of accepting a detachable magazine.
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington |
#27
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MegaWin. Finally got a test case.....
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PRO PELLE CUTEM "Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever"- Thomas Jefferson, 1785 Quote:
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#28
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I could be wrong...but isn't this argument by the AG the precise reason a bulletin is needed?
Quote:
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”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown ”A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” ~George Washington |
#29
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Quote:
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#32
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Out****ingstanding. Reminds me that I have not made my donation to CGF for this tax year - will get on it this weekend.
It's also a good reminder why orgs like CGF can't plaster their whole strategy all over the Internet...hopefully folks will see this and grok that point... Great work CGF! --Neill
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#33
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OK, so the DOJ says that a bulletin to all LEA's and DA's in the state is pointless. I bet if they banned something or found a common gun to be illegal they would let every agency in the state know about it.
I guess we can only expect this type of bulls**t from freedom hating liars , what kills me is they're wasting our tax dollars doing this.
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There are 3 kinds of people in this world. The wise, learn from the mistakes of others. The smart, learn from their own mistakes. The others, well......they just never learn. "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, Give Me Liberty, Or Give Me Death!" Patrick Henry. |
#35
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Quote:
--Neill
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#36
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In the underlying criminal case CGF spent $3713.43. Obviously the civil action after has additional ongoing attorney's fees.
-Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#37
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Agreed!
Yes - at this point, I guess we can just print out the fricken court case and carry that around. Folks are still getting busted for their LEGAL rifles, and it's NOT LE's fault. It's DOJ's fault for being in denial about this whole winning episode of ours. They are probably feeling like the abused spouse here - and we aren't even "abusers" - we are just folks who are pointing out, in polite language, that our "spouse" is smoking crack. . . Remember - it's always: WINNING for us - LOSING for them. . . And has been that way since 2006. . . Quote:
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#38
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Quote:
-Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#39
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Concerning the criminal dismissal, well done!
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OIF 07-09 Veteran NRA Endowment Member, CRPA Life Member |
#40
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Quote:
-Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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