Why epoxy magazine blocks

[blackbox]

Got a question about the new style magazine blocks from MagazineBlocks.com, where its a one-piece block + baseplate:




Why would you need to epoxy the baseplate?

(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

In my mind, "permanently altered" refers to something like riveting through the side of a 30rd mag, instead of putting a screw in that can easily be backed out. With an integrated block/baseplate, you can't increase the capacity without either breaking it, or replacing parts, which would seem permanent enough to me.

I realize it doesn't hurt legally to epoxy it, but this seems excessive. Any of the legal eagles want to weigh-in?

[yelohamr]

It's so it cant be removed easily and then be replaced with another baseplate to increase the capacity.

I'm not a lawyer but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

[glock_this]

which would seem permanent enough to me.

theres your error in logic.. "permanent enough to me" does not mean jack. there are pretty clear rules to follow here.

as has been said, it would be easy to undo what you propose, since it is not rivited or epoxied, and make it back into a high cap mag.. that, in and of itself, is clearly not permanent if you can undo it like that.

[mala in se]

I have the older version of the blocks and I thought it was a bit excessive, but I went ahead and epoxied the blocks just so I did everything in my power to conform to the written law.

I assume if they question the legality of my mags, I would be covered. I think it's just the smart thing to do, and let' be real here, I don't see 10 round capacity laws changing anytime soon.

[glock_this]

"I think it's just the smart thing to do"

bingo.. unless you want to risk some serious criminal charges... not worth if for a $15-20 item. Convert them, convert them permanent, convert them legally.

The laws are not going to change any time soon so 10 is what it is. If you move out of CA, sell your permanent mags right here, people will buy them, go spend the money on legal ones for your state.

[Unit74]

I think you guys are paranoid.....



If an LEO happens to check the mags and it doesn't take more than ten rounds, there is no violation.

The fact that you could replace parts to make it hold more in no way can be construed to be a violation. You would have to " Alter" as the law says, the mag to make it hold more. You have actually done the inverse by altering it to take less ammo. Do you think that any DA getting this case would even waste his time on it? If the mag holds ten or less, there is no crime. Period.


This whole "sky is falling" paranoia cracks me up.

[himurax13]

So are these magazine blocks legal to use?

[bombadillo]

As legal as any other block method is. I'd say that its a better method than most.

[glock_this]

I think you guys are paranoid.....

If an LEO happens to check the mags and it doesn't take more than ten rounds, there is no violation.

The fact that you could replace parts to make it hold more in no way can be construed to be a violation. You would have to " Alter" as the law says, the mag to make it hold more. You have actually done the inverse by altering it to take less ammo. Do you think that any DA getting this case would even waste his time on it? If the mag holds ten or less, there is no crime. Period.

This whole "sky is falling" paranoia cracks me up.

I would agree a DA is not likely going to pursue. And I agree it is not likely going to be an issue for most people BUT, IIRC, they have to be "permanent" and being able to alter it back is simply not permanent. Period. This has been debated and covered here many times, I suggest you go read some of those threads.

As I said, it will likely not be an issue for most people, but it is a pretty hefty penalty if you do.. is that worth a $15-20 mag? Or worth getting your AR confiscated until you work it out?

So are these magazine blocks legal to use?

well sure, nothing legal or illegal about them. the blocks are just chunks of plastic waiting for you to use them.

[Merle]

I think you guys are paranoid.....

If an LEO happens to check the mags and it doesn't take more than ten rounds, there is no violation.

The fact that you could replace parts to make it hold more in no way can be construed to be a violation. You would have to " Alter" as the law says, the mag to make it hold more. You have actually done the inverse by altering it to take less ammo. Do you think that any DA getting this case would even waste his time on it? If the mag holds ten or less, there is no crime. Period.

This whole "sky is falling" paranoia cracks me up.

I agree on this one. If the magazine can NOT accept more than 10 rounds, it doesn't matter if it's permanent or temporary. Change the wording of the law to include (Z)

As long as you meet the (25) portion, it shouldn't matter if you meet (A) or (Z).

We know the DA and police can take apart and reassemble our guns in any configuration, and the same logic should apply to having a monster stock or a bullet button. If they have to change the inner workings of your weapon and magazines to get a conviction, it's tampering with evidence.

[glock_this]

I think your woefully wrong...

[Unit74]

And who exactly defines permanent? A bunch of internet gun jockeys? Me thinks not.....

I'm well aware of all the other threads out there, but alas, this is another one. Which leads me to digress to another subject...


EVERTHING has already been discussed in "other threads." So why do the interweb keyboard slingers always belch out something about "go search" or post a roll eyes ever time someone who HASN'T been here for years asks a very simple question? Who cares? If they wanted to search for it, they would. But the wheels of EVERY board run on new posts. It's how the owners can provide horsepower to potential advertisers about hits per day, members and new posts.

So either post a link with more relevant information or answer the questions asked. I'm sure the folks paying the bills would appreciate it.... seriously.

I would agree a DA is not likely going to pursue. And I agree it is not likely going to be an issue for most people BUT, IIRC, they have to be "permanent" and being able to alter it back is simply not permanent. Period. This has been debated and covered here many times, I suggest you go read some of those threads.

As I said, it will likely not be an issue for most people, but it is a pretty hefty penalty if you do.. is that worth a $15-20 mag? Or worth getting your AR confiscated until you work it out?



well sure, nothing legal or illegal about them. the blocks are just chunks of plastic waiting for you to use them.

[glock_this]

slow your roll man

the question was answered, more questions raised, answers were not accepted, the reasons "search" was recommended was so that the OP could go look and read what people have already spent time writing, documenting, why rehash it all. It is cool to banter it back and fourth a bit, but after a point of endless regurgitated opinions, it is easier to go read what has all been said before - so use the Search, that is why it is here - rather than making - as you admit - yet another thread on the topic.

As well, said other existing topics might have specifics references, more knowledgeable pundits and legal quotes or documents we don't have in this one that end this debate. Why do it all again and now that we have reached that point, it is easier to go do the research people have spent the time writing about already than doing the whole dance again.

smarter and more knowledgeable people on the laws define "permanent"

BTW, your point about new posts.. not everyone agrees.. there are been many conversations about the fact that the same questions come up over and over and how to limit that from happening since people have addressed it all. You will still get answers, but in a way it is your laziness to not use the search or read a Sticky and just post it up again. Some people want others to d their research and not do it themselves. As well, each new post and thread is more and more database space, server time & load, etc.. so it is not as beneficial as you make it out to be to just add and add and add new posts and threads and topics.

[MasterYong]

The way the blocks are a permanent part of the baseplate (unless a tool like a saw is used to remove them) then you would have to replace the baseplate to return the mag to full capacity.

Similar to the way the 10/50 PS90/P90/AR57 mags work. There's a baseplate that's REALLY tall so that the mag can't accept more than 10 rounds. In order to make the mag full-cap you'd have to either cut off a good chunk of the baseplate or you'd have to get a new baseplate altogether. I ordered one from a vendor here and he'd epoxied the baseplate on (which was just silly because it was not only unnecessary but the baseplate came off with just a little pressure from my fingers, it didn't hold at all). The one that I ordered from an out-of-state dealer wasn't epoxied. It didn't need to be. You'd have to replace a whole part to make it high cap.

IANAL

[Fate]

So either post a link with more relevant information or answer the questions asked. I'm sure the folks paying the bills would appreciate it.... seriously.

This thread actually did a good job of examining several issues being discussed. Permanence being one of them.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=139687