Bullet button---legal in CA

[Hopi]

BB illegal? Who cares . . . there is an option known as "featureless" which is quite superior, both functionally and legally, IMHO.

Except when it comes to FALs, of course.

LOL. Bullet buttons are for tools.

[Bill Carson]

" they" would be the government and yes the DOJ does have an agenda regarding firearms. Who do you think is in the lawmakers ears ? California may never have the money to get this bullet button illegalized but I would not bet on it. It does not matter who my source of information is, anyone in their right mind can see that the DOJ, goverment, politicians in California are mostly anti-2A. Just because the " bullet button" was invented to circumnavigate the current laws does not mean it will be invincible. This is not a game of cat and mouse this is a war with each side using changing tactics and strategies to win.

[Bill Carson]

One shooting spree by one wacko with a gun with the bullet button feature and watch what happens. The baby gets thrown out with the bath water and the bullet button will be demonized for allowing aforementioned wacko to reload so quickly. Common sense does not make laws, popular opinion does.

[Cokebottle]

One shooting spree by one wacko with a gun with the bullet button feature and watch what happens. The baby gets thrown out with the bath water and the bullet button will be demonized for allowing aforementioned wacko to reload so quickly.

And we go back to top-loading with a pinned-down P50

[n2k]

you wil not find any "official" approval.

DOJ will not approve anything (unless it makes things more difficult for gun owners - handgun and safety device rosters). Despite the fact that they also generally hate guns, it isn't really their job.

About that, Gun World in Burbank for years stated that OLL, BB and AK were illegal and would make you a felon.

They now state that they have a letter from the DOJ stating the legality of these and are now carrying them in their shop with the BB.

The only reason I use this example is because we know what kind of reputation Gun World has.

Would it be possible that DOJ actually provided them with some type of conformation letter?

[ke6guj]

About that, Gun World in Burbank for years stated that OLL, BB and AK were illegal and would make you a felon.

They now state that they have a letter from the DOJ stating the legality of these and are now carrying them in their shop with the BB.

The only reason I use this example is because we know what kind of reputation Gun World has.

Would it be possible that DOJ actually provided them with some type of conformation letter?

Does GW show a copy of that letter to customers? If not, can it be PRAR'ed from CADOJ?

[n2k]

Does GW show a copy of that letter to customers? If not, can it be PRAR'ed from CADOJ?

I asked to see it, they stated that it is in their files.

That is why I brought it up here, to see if anyone else has heard of this unseen letter.

[ddeu]

Bullet is not a tool..

I have heard, seen and read all kinds of info on the "bullet button' and how it makes guns w/ detachable magzines 'legal' in California... after research the CA Attorney General website and CA penal codes on the assault weapon ban, I found that what appears to be a ruling in February, 2000.... a bullet is not a tool, and therefore a bullet button does not make the gun legal... here is an excerpt:

978.20(a) - Detachable Magazine Does anybody know as a fact, that the "bullet button' is actually legal in CA ... or is this just marketing whoey to sell kits??

[SP1200]

I think they should take the "not CA DOJ approved" quote of the inscructions. It is confusing! Out of state FFL's don't realize that the DOJ doesn't approve anything! The fact that NO ONE has ever been arrested and charged when properly using BB's is proof that it is approved by the laws of CA!

[bwiese]

[quote=ke6guj;3500033]
My point is that it wouldn't take much for CADOJ to go to an anti-gun legislator and say "those pesky gun nuts found a loophole in your AW law. If you were to amend it to say XYZ, it could close the loophole that is allowing those gun nuts to buy AWs."

BoF is kinda cornered.

1) pressure from above from friendly powers

2) doing this has to open an AW reg period for all OLL rifles and
SKSes (as well as a few others); seizures/confiscations (and likely compensation!) of 300K rifles would be a disaster and huge PR to
NRA [in CA and nationally] and Calguns. Aside from a practical
nightmare, it'd be a political nightmare and really wake gunnies
up.

3) the BoF really doesn't want more "AWs" and this action would produce that.

4) BoF staff smarter than Alison realize that this could lead to
a surge in reconfigured rifles that allow detachable magazines,
which are much more useable than BB rifles even if the grip is ugly.

It may not be the role of LE to legislate, but are they prohibited from talking to legislators about laws they'd like to see passed, no.

True. DOJ has their own lobbyists - "legislative relations" guys. For awhile one was Aaron McGuire, a Deputy AG III that was doing Alison's bidding - when OLL drama was occurring he was out there trying to solve the problem for AG Billy Lockyer.

I think McGuire is doing other things now, certainly the AG thru Bureau of Firearms is not really doing legislative outreach on gun matters and has not offered recent support for recent gun laws.

[SJgunguy24]

Ok then have the builder remove the pistol grip and ship the gun that way, and mail the grip to the OP's address.

[SP1200]

WTF! Where did you get this? Can you post a link? I have never seen this.
Are you sure it not just opinion of the DOJ form their FUD website???

Hoff? Have you seen this?

I have heard, seen and read all kinds of info on the "bullet button' and how it makes guns w/ detachable magzines 'legal' in California... after research the CA Attorney General website and CA penal codes on the assault weapon ban, I found that what appears to be a ruling in February, 2000.... a bullet is not a tool, and therefore a bullet button does not make the gun legal... here is an excerpt:

978.20(a) - Detachable Magazine
The proposed definition as originally noticed to the public defined a detachable magazine as “any
magazine that can be readily removed without the use of tools.” During the initial public comment
period (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000), comments were received that caused the
Department to make revisions to the definition. Comments expressed concern about the use of the
term “magazine,” which is often erroneously used to describe clips that are used to load
ammunition into a fixed magazine. Recognizing that to be true, the Department changed the word
“magazine” to the statutory term “ammunition feeding device” (PC section 12276.1(c)(1)). The
Department also added the phrase “without disassembly of the firearm action” as a result of public
comment stating that there are firearms with fixed magazines that can be field stripped
(disassembled in the field) without using any tools (such as the M1 Garand). Including those
firearms in the definition of a “detachable magazine” would have been inconsistent with the
legislative intent of the statute. Several comments were made that claimed that an assault weapon
pursuant to PC section 12276 has a detachable magazine requiring the use of a bullet tip or
cartridge to remove it from the firearm. The comments claimed that if a bullet or ammunition
cartridge were to be considered a tool, these types of firearms statutorily defined as assault
weapons would not meet the definition of having a detachable magazine. For that reason the
Department added “For the purpose of this definition, a bullet or ammunition cartridge is not a
tool.” It was also necessary to add linked or belted ammunition to the definition of an ammunition
feeding device because that type of ammunition system feeds cartridges directly into the firing
chamber, like the spring and follower of a box-type magazine. The definition was accordingly
revised to read “detachable magazine means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed
readily from the firearm without disassembly of the firearm action or the use of a tool(s). For the
purpose of this definition, a bullet or ammunition cartridge is not a tool. Ammunition feeding
device includes any belted or linked ammunition.”

Does anybody know as a fact, that the "bullet button' is actually legal in CA ... or is this just marketing whoey to sell kits??

[bwiese]

The above is outdated crap, and is just part of proposed regulation.

The actual regulatory definition in 11 CCR 978.20 has been renumbered to 11 CCR 5469(a) and is as follows.

"Detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding
device that can be removed readily from the firearm with
neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool
being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered
a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or
linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips,
or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.


Please rest assured that the BulletButtond device, when used properly and other concerns (min. length, etc.) are addressed, ensures a semiauto centerfire rifle is not an AW. Otherwise we'd all be in jail now.

The Calguns Foundation will defend anyone legitimately using/ transporting a legitimately configured BB'd semiauto rifle from AW charges.

[NiteQwill]

Please, stop. You have all the wrong information and you are spreading it unwisely.

I have heard, seen and read all kinds of info on the "bullet button' and how it makes guns w/ detachable magzines 'legal' in California... after research the CA Attorney General website and CA penal codes on the assault weapon ban, I found that what appears to be a ruling in February, 2000.... a bullet is not a tool, and therefore a bullet button does not make the gun legal... here is an excerpt:

978.20(a) - Detachable Magazine Does anybody know as a fact, that the "bullet button' is actually legal in CA ... or is this just marketing whoey to sell kits??

[SP1200]

The above is outdated crap, and is just part of proposed regulation.

The actual regulatory definition in 11 CCR 978.20 has been renumbered to 11 CCR 5469(a) and is as follows.

"Detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding
device that can be removed readily from the firearm with
neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool
being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered
a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or
linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips,
or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.


Please rest assured that the BulletButtond device, when used properly and other concerns (min. length, etc.) are addressed, ensures a semiauto centerfire rifle is not an AW. Otherwise we'd all be in jail now.

The Calguns Foundation will defend anyone legitimately using/ transporting a legitimately configured BB'd semiauto rifle from AW charges.

Jesus F'N Christ! Dude that scared the hell out of me.
I travel to CA a lot with my OLL BB rifle!!!!