Converting Hi-Cap mags to legal capacity

[Noonanda]

I am active duty military, so there is a excemption for military with "assault rifles".

This question could affect alot of people, I know there is a guy with a Cali Fn-FAL that is also trying to get an answer on this question.

Part of my reason for pursueing this question is the AK, or for that matter any detachable magazine rifle does not look right to me with a lo-cap magazine. A high cap modified to lo-cap standards will meet the law, yet still portrays that image of "evil". After all image is everything LOL

[artherdGROUPEESUCKS]

I am active duty military, so there is a excemption for military with "assault rifles".

Wait a second, isn't there there also an exemption for AD Military with Standard-Capacity mags as well? <lemme look>

I'd drop the 'permanant welding' issue, and I'd drop the AD Military issue.

Press them, make them tell you it's not legal to temporarily insert a block of wood to block it to 10. They can't, because it is perfectly legal as long as the mag feeds only 10.

[artherdGROUPEESUCKS]

Hrm, it does not appear that AD Military are exempt from standard-capacity magainze restrictions, only Peace Officers are.

At least this is what I can gleen from staring too long at statutes too late in the evening.

At anyrate, my earlier comments stand. Ditch the AD Military, and ditch the specifics in which you will modify. Say only "The magazine will be altered in such a way as it will hold only 10 rounds withought disassembly of the magazine"

[bwiese]

There is no legal basis for exemption for hicap mags for the personal weapons (of any type) of miltary folks stationed here. The laws did not account for that.

So, while the DOJ can issue a special permit for active duty military to retain their AWs while stationed here, they can't give out permits for hicaps!

If the DOJ tells you otherwise, make them cite code in PC 12xxx. They won't be able to, as assault weapon law is separate/independent from hicap mag law.

Accept ONLY information on this from a senior DOJ Firearms person, preferably a lawyer. DOJ 'field agents' are cops, and you should never trust a cop for information (or much else).


Bill Wiese
San Jose

[Noonanda]

Hey all good news, I just got an email from Alison Merrilees, Deputy Attorney General at DOJ about my question. I sent them a letter like last week, asking if it was legal to convert hi-cap's to low caps. She says it is legal for me to convert them prior to transfering back to pendleton. So I will be bringing some HI-cap looking but low capacity magazines back to california. I think what I will do is silver sodder a block in the mags after I put in the spring making em hold no more than 10 rounds. Anyone need some mags converted for them prior to me transfering back out?
I asked her if she could mail me a hard copy version of what she wrote for a CYA thing.

[bwiese]

Noonanda..

I really really don't know why you want to do this. Regardless of legal issues, it's an exercise in futility and a big waste of time.

Roughing up the inside surface of mags is a good way of causing follower drag and uneven follower movement (i.e., tipping) in some mags, and feed issues in guns using them.

Go buy a bunch of 10rd mags mailorder for your guns while in CA. They're cheap enough as only CA and a couple of other screwed up places are a market for them.

Leave your hicaps stored safely outside CA or in a bank deposit box (which is fairly cheap).

Bill Wiese
San Jose

[icormba]

I can understand why he wants to do this... What's the fun of having an AK with a 10 round mag? Might as well get an SKS. At least having an AK with a 30 rounder modified to only hold 10 rounds still has that "EVIL" look to it... isn't that the whole purpose? I never sat at a bench shooting my AK for accuracy! the AK was the rifle I used on the tin can range.

AK mags are probably the cheapest of all rifle mags ever made, they are also probably one of the most reliable mag designs ever created.

Outside of California these things are cheaper than dirt and sometimes the high caps are cheaper than the 5/10 rounders. He's not staying here forever so destroying a 30 round AK mag is nothin. Us on the other hand... we have to guard our legally owned hi-caps like gold! (didn't someone say that earlier?)
damn Ca!

ON the other hand... Pistol low caps seem to be the bargain for us these days. Those days will end though! As 10 rounders will no longer be the norm and they too will dry up. Unless someone re-instates the National high cap ban again. So getting some 10rounder's for your pistols now is a good idea as Bill stated above!

[saki302]

Chris,

Don;t forget, there are 10 YEARS' worth of 'low cap' mags in other states people are disposing of right now.
The only issues I see is with guns produced after the AW ban expired- like the FN 5.7. The 10 rounders will cost just as much as the 20's, since they cost the same to produce, and there aren't thousands of them floating around.

-Dave

[colossians323]

Originally posted by Rob Jones:
The real problem with doing this is this:

You must first acquire the high-cap magazine in order to perform the modification, correct? If you don't already legally possess the high-cap magazine, you would have to break CA law to acquire the high-cap magazine in the first place!

Unless of course, you went out-of-state to do all this...then you might be legal in CA.

Rob

Actually, you can order all the regular cap parts you want, you just can't assemble them into a new reg-cap magazine.
So if one wanted to do this in California, it is completely legal as long as its capacity would not hold more then 10.

[Noonanda]

Bwiese, the whole reason I want to do it is when someone thinks about an ak, they dont think of a short little magazine, they think of a long curving magazine. Its all about the image. If I didnt convert these mags I would have to get rid of them anyway, might as well make use of em and show people how an AK should look even in California.
well anyway here is a copy of the email

Thank you for your letter to the Firearms Division of the California Department of Justice. In response to your inquiry, it is not illegal to possess "high capacity magazines" (with the ability to hold more than 10 rounds) in California. However it is illegal to import them into the state. Under California Penal Code section 12020(a)(2), a person who "manufactures... imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends, any large-capacity magazine" is guilty of a crime that is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison. You may legally possess the large-capacity magazines in California, as long as you do not sell, or otherwise transfer them.

If you altered the magazines so that they held no more than 10 rounds before moving to California, you could lawfully import them into the state. Once you were in California, you could lawfully possess them. However, you could not legally convert them back into large-capacity magazines without violating 12020(a)(2).

I hope this information is helpful. Please feel free to email or call me if you have any questions.

Alison Merrilees
Deputy Attorney General

She kind of confused me at first by saying I could have them, but after I re-read it she was saying that in the low capacity status.

[maxicon]

She kind of confused me at first by saying I could have them, but after I re-read it she was saying that in the low capacity status.

What she was saying is that it's legal to possess magazines with >10 round capacity in California. What she didn't say is that you had to have possessed them prior to the ban on importation.

If you didn't have them before that, it's generally illegal to possess them, though there are some loopholes, like finding one on the ground.

As has been pointed out, it's not illegal to possess magazine parts, regardless of the capacity. The safe way to modify mags in California is to have the bodies sent first, modify them to only accept 10 rounds, then have the rest of the parts sent.

There are other variations that could work, like having the mag guts sent to someone else in Cali, who would then give them to you when the bodies were modified.

There's always a risk that you'd find a local DA who would attempt to prosecute such a scheme if they happened to find out, so whether it's worth the risk is a personal call.

max

[ace_31]

Great info here. I know its quite a revival of a dead thread but I needed the info. Thank you to all the contributors.

[The Cable Guy]

5 year old thread. Nice...

[thatrogue]

I started reading Bwiese comments... I started think WTF I thought this issue was all but settled... then quickly realized this was a necrothread... way to wake a zombie Ace

[Dead*Reckoned]

I was reading this, "has this been done?"

and thinking to myself.... uhhh YES. doh.