Converting Hi-Cap mags to legal capacity

[Noonanda]

Question for you all.
Do you think it would be legal to take a 20 or 30 rd mag and weld in a block so that it can hold no more than 10 rounds?? An AK with a 10 round mag isn't as cool looking and one that "Looks" like it holds 20 or 30. I was thinking about this last night, buying a 20 round hungarian or romanian mag, and wleding in a block so that it CANNOT hold more than 10 rounds. It will look cool but function within the legal limits as set by california Peni$ I mean penal code whateverthenumberis.

Has anyone tried this? I would have to do this prior to moving back into the state as theys bad hunks of metal cause so much grief and pain in the world.

What do you all think????

[C.G.]

Originally posted by Noonanda:
Question for you all.
Do you think it would be legal to take a 20 or 30 rd mag and weld in a block so that it can hold no more than 10 rounds?? An AK with a 10 round mag isn't as cool looking and one that "Looks" like it holds 20 or 30. I was thinking about this last night, buying a 20 round hungarian or romanian mag, and wleding in a block so that it CANNOT hold more than 10 rounds. It will look cool but function within the legal limits as set by california Peni$ I mean penal code whateverthenumberis.

Has anyone tried this? I would have to do this prior to moving back into the state as theys bad hunks of metal cause so much grief and pain in the world.

What do you all think????

Get a manufacturer mag, like Bushmaster, which is twenty round size, blocked off at ten and cannot be modified without ruining the mag. Anything of your own construction/mod I wouldn't use unless you got the Cal DOJ approval first.

[Noonanda]

Talked to a DOJ guy on the phone concerning this, he said it is a grey are that will need to be researched because it was not manufactured as a low capacity, but it does meet the laws criteria of holding no more than 10 rounds. I sent them an email with the following:

I have a question concerning Hi-capacity magainzes.

I am active duty military stationed in Oklahoma, and will be transfering to California in March of 2006. I currently own a high capacity magazine that is not allowed in california.

My question is this, would it be legal for me to permanently convert this magazine so that it holds the legal amount of ammunition? IE I would take a 20 round magazine (hi-capacity) and permanently weld a block inside this magazine so that it can hold no more than 10 rounds of ammunition (converted to low capacity or "legal capacity)??
From what I read on the website concerning Hi-Cap. Mags, this would be legal as it could not hold more than 10 rounds.
What concerns me is the fact that the outside appearance would not be changed, and this would bring attention to said magazine. I am not worried about the attention, but would like to ensure I am legally allowed to possess it in its non-hi capacity status.
So I would like to find out if this permanent modification would be considered legal before I transfer to find out if I must despose of said magazine prior to transfering.

[C.G.]

Originally posted by Noonanda:
Talked to a DOJ guy on the phone concerning this, he said it is a grey are that will need to be researched because it was not manufactured as a low capacity, but it does meet the laws criteria of holding no more than 10 rounds. I sent them an email with the following:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I have a question concerning Hi-capacity magainzes.

I am active duty military stationed in Oklahoma, and will be transfering to California in March of 2006. I currently own a high capacity magazine that is not allowed in california.

My question is this, would it be legal for me to permanently convert this magazine so that it holds the legal amount of ammunition? IE I would take a 20 round magazine (hi-capacity) and permanently weld a block inside this magazine so that it can hold no more than 10 rounds of ammunition (converted to low capacity or "legal capacity)??
From what I read on the website concerning Hi-Cap. Mags, this would be legal as it could not hold more than 10 rounds.
What concerns me is the fact that the outside appearance would not be changed, and this would bring attention to said magazine. I am not worried about the attention, but would like to ensure I am legally allowed to possess it in its non-hi capacity status.
So I would like to find out if this permanent modification would be considered legal before I transfer to find out if I must despose of said magazine prior to transfering.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check this thread: FAL mags

[bwiese]

Being the paranoid sort, I wouldn't just trust a letter from a 'field agent', or "analyst". Those folks aren't lawyers and are essentially glorified desk clerks. Get it from someone higher up.

What those folks write really doesn't have the force of law if trouble came up.

This is much like asking the BATF a tech question about legalities. The local field office folks (agents, clerks and even managers) give all sorts of answers all over the map but the only one that counted was a letter from the tech division signed by its then-manager, Ed Owen (there's a new guy there now).

Unofficially - and I'm not a lawyer - I do believe that ultimately a collection of parts that used to be a hicap mag - but now only serves as a 10rd magazine - would be legal as long as the conversion were reasonably permanent. Hicap mag replacement mag parts are in fact legal to possess in CA; I just wouldn't possess a complete set or sets of them all at once even disassembled - but if blocked they might be OK.

The broad issue here is not only just what Cal DOJ/Firearms Div thinks, but what each one of the 58 county DAs (District Attorneys) thinks - since this is really an 'edge' issue. Remember that 99.9% of all prosecutions in CA happen at the county DA level - the DOJ isn't going against you, the DA is: sometimes on edge issues their opinion could differ.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

[markalite@yahoo.com]

I've been wondering about this also. Seems that the conventional wisdom is that it's okay as long as it is fairly difficult to convert back. Is there a way to get a ruling in writing from CADOJ?

[rjones0604]

The real problem with doing this is this:

You must first acquire the high-cap magazine in order to perform the modification, correct? If you don't already legally possess the high-cap magazine, you would have to break CA law to acquire the high-cap magazine in the first place!

Unless of course, you went out-of-state to do all this...then you might be legal in CA.

Rob

[icormba]

Originally posted by Rob Jones:
The real problem with doing this is this:

You must first acquire the high-cap magazine in order to perform the modification, correct? If you don't already legally possess the high-cap magazine, you would have to break CA law to acquire the high-cap magazine in the first place!

Unless of course, you went out-of-state to do all this...then you might be legal in CA.

Rob

He's currently out of state:
Location: Ft Sill Oklahoma, soon to be Camp Pendleton

[artherdGROUPEESUCKS]

Should be perfectly legal, the ammunition feeding device

There is no law on the books saying I can't MAKE MY OWN magazines from bare sheet metal (or metal ingoits I pound into sheet) So why can't I buy followers, bodies, blocks of wood, etc?)

Only thing that matters at all is the mag's capacity to hold rounds.


FYI, my (and most) 10 round CA Glock mags will hold an 11th round if I cram it in there. This state has made nearly ALL OF US into DE-FACTO CRIMINALS!

Lastly, Simple Posession of high-caps is NOT controled in CA. *ONLY* the IMPORT, MANUFACTUAR, or PURCHASE of high-caps is controled.

[Guest]

Recently, California passed a law that banned vehicles with fixed high capacity fuel tanks that have a capacity over 10 gallons. These vehicles will be banned from sale or importation in the state of California effective immediately. Vehicles with these magazines may not be transferred or solf within the state, except to authorized law enforcement dealers.
Vehicles sold prior to this date will require registration as an assault vehicle, or the installation of a Department of Justice approved
normal capacity fuel tank. The state believes that this will lower traffic deaths. Critics say that this will simply force people to refill more often...

[saki302]

11 rounds in a 10 rd GLock mag?

I can barely get the 10th round in- I call them my '9 rounders'.

-Dave

[Noonanda]

still aint heard back from em, may email em again in a few days if I dont hear anything

[bwiese]

Noonanda wrote:
still aint heard back from em, may email em
again in a few days if I dont hear anything

I would not email. I'd mail a formal letter in; this will get a formal response.

Heck, I'd address it to Tim Riegert, asst head of the Firearms Div. He's sharp, approachable, and a lawyer - and that way you won't get a random response from a desk jockey 'analyst' (read: clerk) or field agent, neither of whom are lawyers or understand legal minutiae.

Email is a very poor way to communicate on matters of import for legal communications, or even customer support. When I need something done, or need a concrete and binding answer I always send a letter.


Bill Wiese
San Jose

[Noonanda]

Here is a copy of the letter Im gonna send to them, what do you all think?? (sorry if it is long winded)

Dear Sir or Ma’am,

I am currently an active duty United States Marine stationed in Oklahoma. I have a question concerning “High-Capacity” magazines.

Living in Oklahoma residents are allowed to own and possess magazines with the ability to hold more than 10 rounds. I currently own 2 magazines that hold 20 rounds, and understand that these are illegal to possess in California, due to the fact that they were purchased after the High-Capacity Magazine law went into effect in California. This brings me to my question.

My question is would it be legal for me to permanently convert this magazine so that it can hold no more than the legal amount of ammunition? For example I would take a 20 round magazine (High-Capacity) and permanently weld a block inside this magazine so that it can hold no more than 10 rounds of ammunition (converting it to low capacity or "legal capacity”)??

The reason I ask this question is the fact that in March of 2006 I will be stationed back at Camp Pendleton.

From what I read on the website with the laws concerning High-Capacity Magazines and from a phone discussion with a clerk at DOJ, this would be legal as it could not hold more than 10 rounds. But the clerk brought up a valid point that this is a grey area that may not be covered by the law so I would like to get an official DOJ ruling on the matter.

What concerns me is the fact that the outside appearance would not be changed, and this would bring attention to said magazine by law enforcement officers. Also is the fact that I am not a “licensed manufacturer” but my modification to my magazines would be for personal use only. The aforementioned magazines would not be able to hold more than 10 rounds, and any attempt to convert these magazines back to high capacity or to remove the block would ruin or destroy the magazine due to the placement of the welds on the inside of the magazine body.

I am not worried about the attention these may attract from law enforcement officers, as long as in the Department of Justice says that this would be a legal conversion and I had documentation to prove it.

These modifications would be conducted prior to my transfer back to California. So I would like to find out if this permanent modification would be considered legal before I transfer to find out if I must dispose of said magazines prior to transferring back to California.

[toolman9000]

I don't mean to be a pest, but in the first post of this thread there is mention of "AK", Is the AK you are bringing to California Registered as an Assult Weapon already???

Just checking, if not the mags could be the least of your problems.

-toolman9000