When can we expect this???

[85FourEyedGT]

Ive always wondered, If we wanted to challenge the California 10 round magazine limit how would we do it?

has it ever been challenged?

I Know we have way bigger fish to fry at the moment, but from what ive read Pro 2A Californians have some momentum right now and I think that the High Cap mag issue is important...

it seems like a medium sized issue that with our combined strength could be beaten. I know im not a important member of CG (yet) so I just wanted to remind other members that while we are trying to win the war, maybe we should try to take on smaller battles such as high cap magazines...

thoughts?ideas?

who do we send letters to? who to call?

thanks for reading and post anything related

[YoungGun2]

Ive always wondered, If we wanted to challenge the California 10 round magazine limit how would we do it?

has it ever been challenged?

I Know we have way bigger fish to fry at the moment, but from what ive read Pro 2A Californians have some momentum right now and I think that the High Cap mag issue is important...

it seems like a medium sized issue that with our combined strength could be beaten. I know im not a important member of CG (yet) so I just wanted to remind other members that while we are trying to win the war, maybe we should try to take on smaller battles such as high cap magazines...

thoughts?ideas?

who do we send letters to? who to call?

thanks for reading and post anything related

I’ve asked something similar before, check the link….

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=148894

[damon1272]

This is just my opinion, not scholarly insight; I would think that this could be argued using the Heller ruling. California created the artificial "high cap" designation. With the Heller ruling one could argue that what the manufacturer creates for magazine capacity is the "standard size" for that weapon. This along with the fact that these weapons are not destructive devices and are "normal" as defined by the Heller ruling that it could be upheld that California is infringing on the 2nd amendment rights of people by deviating from what the Supreme court has ruled as a "normal" weapon and by placing artificial limits on magazine capacity. This is just how I see it.

[85FourEyedGT]

when can we expect the CGF to take this on , time for me to make some donations

[damon1272]

Heller needs to be incorporated first. I think that this issues is low on the list though. I personally would like to see it overturned but it would need to be fought in the media as well. Unfortunatly too much is left to the left to define the terms and logic of things to the general public. I would love to see the tables turned on them and starting to assign labels to their actions that get more traction with the public.

[bwiese]

I don't think this is a head-on issue we want to take on yet.

However, the statute of limitations for hicap mag import/acquisition violations is 3 years.

[85FourEyedGT]

I don't think this is a head-on issue we want to take on yet.

However, the statute of limitations for hicap mag import/acquisition violations is 3 years.

cant decipher the legal speak, what exactly does that mean?

[zachary2287]

cant decipher the legal speak, what exactly does that mean?

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand about CA law is that neither the purchase nor possession of a "high capacity" magazine is illegal. To convict you the govt would have to prove that you either imported or manufactured the magazine which are both illegal, and that they would have to prove that you did one of those two things within 36 months of filing charges. If the illegal importation or manufacture occurred longer than 36 months ago you can't be convicted.

I say convicted because I'm sure they would still try to prosecute.

[Jpach]

I don't think this is a head-on issue we want to take on yet.

However, the statute of limitations for hicap mag import/acquisition violations is 3 years.

Big Bill, any idea when were going to go after the AWB? Is there nay link to an existing thread discussing the timeline or list for specific legal action against CA?

[85FourEyedGT]

so theoretically...if you import high cap mags, 3 years later you get arrested, you cant be convicted for it?

[bwiese]

so theoretically...if you import high cap mags, 3 years later you get arrested, you cant be convicted for it?

Theoretically.

If it could be shown that the importation actually did happen 3+ yrs ago.
And if one managed to keep proof somehow during the interregnum that would not result in self-incrimination at that time, and one lived an otherwise blameless & quiet life to not get attention until then.

That does not mean if popped one would not have legal & bail expenses.
It also does not mean even if ultimate no-file/no conviction that one would get his mags back.

Clarity is further removed if the mags were for guns pre-2000. Mags for guns not existing until 2000 are more radioactive.

[yellowfin]

I've seen some mags stamped with date of manufacture, so at very least you'd have to have ones 3 years old.

[Kestryll]

Big Bill, any idea when were going to go after the AWB? Is there nay link to an existing thread discussing the timeline or list for specific legal action against CA?

Timelines are funny things, as soon as you lay one out factors beyond your control usually screw them up.
But you're still liable because you gave a timeline.
A lot of what is going on and planned is being kept quiet, you don't tell your opposition when you plan on breaching the castle walls.
Some things are contingent on other things happening first as well.
When ever something can be shared it is but sometimes the hard part is not letting people know in order to preserve an advantage.

so theoretically...if you import high cap mags, 3 years later you get arrested, you cant be convicted for it?

In legal theory, yes.
In practice you would be violating the law and we can not and do not condone that here.
If you had them prior to the ban, great. If not then wait until the ban gets removed. Being a poster boy for why the capacity ban is valid would suck.

[MindBuilder]

I'm not a lawyer so I could easily be wrong about this, but I thought I read somewhere that the statute of limitations time period only starts when the crime is discovered by the authorities. So for a bank robbery, they know about the crime right away, but for high cap magazine importation it would only start when they find out a banned mag had been imported. They could file charges three years after the discovery of the importation.

Also, for some crimes you are assumed guilty if you can't produce what should be readily producible evidence of your innocence. So if you are caught in possession of a banned magazine, you may have to produce evidence that you were not the importer. Evidence that you were not the importer doesn't seem like it would be readily producible, so this probably wouldn't apply, but it could be risky. Ignorance of the ban on high cap mag importation might not be an excuse for not preserving such evidence. Law enforcement, gun shop owners, and even lawyers, cant figure out what the gun laws mean even when they are laid out in front of them, nor can they remember the mass of them or abide by them even with great care, but the layman is held accountable to know them perfectly.

[Flopper]

I'm not a lawyer so I could easily be wrong about this, but I thought I read somewhere that the statute of limitations time period only starts when the crime is discovered by the authorities. So for a bank robbery, they know about the crime right away, but for high cap magazine importation it would only start when they find out a banned mag had been imported. They could file charges three years after the discovery of the importation.

Also, for some crimes you are assumed guilty if you can't produce what should be readily producible evidence of your innocence. So if you are caught in possession of a banned magazine, you may have to produce evidence that you were not the importer. Evidence that you were not the importer doesn't seem like it would be readily producible, so this probably wouldn't apply, but it could be risky. Ignorance of the ban on high cap mag importation might not be an excuse for not preserving such evidence. Law enforcement, gun shop owners, and even lawyers, cant figure out what the gun laws mean even when they are laid out in front of them, nor can they remember the mass of them or abide by them even with great care, but the layman is held accountable to know them perfectly.

mere possession of a hi-cap magazine is NOT illegal, and the burden of proof is on the govt on illegal importation or sale.

as for ignorance of the law: it's never a defense.