2022 08 01 Boland V Bonta - Handgun Roster : on hold for Duncan 3-2024

[BobB35]

One thing that stands out to me from the decision is the use of the LEO carve outs as part of the justification to overturn parts of the Roster

Similarly, if Off-Roster firearms were truly unsafe, California would not allow law
enforcement to use them in the line of duty, when the stakes are highest. But the
substantial majority of California’s law enforcement officers use Off-Roster handguns in
the line of duty. (Dkt. 57-2 [Declaration of Brian R. Marvel, President of Peace Officers
Research Association of California, hereinafter “Marvel Decl.”] ?

and

[“Most agencies
issue officers the latest models of either Glock or Sig Sauer handguns, which lack
magazine safety disconnects, chamber load indicators, and of course microstamping.”];
see id. ? 7 [“For example, many officers are issued 4th or 5th-generation Glock pistols,
which are off-roster and lack magazine safety disconnects, chamber load indicators, and
of course microstamping.”].) Indeed, the government’s own witness, Special Agent
Salvador Gonzalez, testified that he uses an Off-Roster duty handgun without a CLI,
MDM, or microstamping capability. (Tr. at 243–44.) If CLIs and MDMs truly increased
the overall safety of a firearm, law enforcement surely would use them. (Marvel Decl.
? 5.) But they do not. Instead, they choose to use “newer, improved and safer
generations of handguns” that are Off-Roster. (Id. ? 7.)

Buying off the Police unions may cost the state the Roster

[CCWFacts]

Buying off the Police unions may cost the state the Roster

It's pretty hilarious:

Indeed, the government?s own witness, Special Agent Salvador Gonzalez, testified that he uses an Off-Roster duty handgun without a CLI, MDM, or microstamping capability

[boomer8800]

LFG!!

[bv141]

One thing that stands out to me from the decision is the use of the LEO carve outs as part of the justification to overturn parts of the Roster

Similarly, if Off-Roster firearms were truly unsafe, California would not allow law
enforcement to use them in the line of duty, when the stakes are highest. But the
substantial majority of California?s law enforcement officers use Off-Roster handguns in
the line of duty. (Dkt. 57-2 [Declaration of Brian R. Marvel, President of Peace Officers
Research Association of California, hereinafter ?Marvel Decl.?] ?

and

[?Most agencies
issue officers the latest models of either Glock or Sig Sauer handguns, which lack
magazine safety disconnects, chamber load indicators, and of course microstamping.?];
see id. ? 7 [?For example, many officers are issued 4th or 5th-generation Glock pistols,
which are off-roster and lack magazine safety disconnects, chamber load indicators, and
of course microstamping.?].) Indeed, the government?s own witness, Special Agent
Salvador Gonzalez, testified that he uses an Off-Roster duty handgun without a CLI,
MDM, or microstamping capability. (Tr. at 243?44.) If CLIs and MDMs truly increased
the overall safety of a firearm, law enforcement surely would use them. (Marvel Decl.
? 5.) But they do not. Instead, they choose to use ?newer, improved and safer
generations of handguns? that are Off-Roster. (Id. ? 7.)

Buying off the Police unions may cost the state the Roster

Thank God for the application of LOGIC in this decision!

[Metal God]

"This preliminary injunction shall not take effect until fourteen days from the date hereof to allow the government to file an appeal and seek a further stay of this preliminary injunction. So far so good..

Good news indeed , no wait . Good news until CA adds 20 more requirements to the roster qualifications . You know like they are doing to conceal carry . It's sad they can't just strike down the whole idea of a roster or approved list . As long as we have to keep challenging each individual line in a law this will never end . CA new rule .... bankrupt the opposition in legal fees !

[CGZ]

That will still be cool because then the roster requirement becomes just the drop test, which every modern handgun will pass, including everyone's favorite Gen 5 Glocks. I think they can do the lab testing quite fast if they want to. It's the drop test and, IIRC, firing a few hundred rounds of ammo.

True, but how long would the process take? Would every manufacture now go and submit every variation of every model they have (IIRC even frame color has to be a sperate entry)? How much dose it cost to get a handgun on the roster? What if I want a stripped Glock frame? Would Glock even submit that to the roster, or would it be covered by the complete handgun?

This is a good win, but the ideal would be to get rid of the roster all together. This two week injunction is more to see how CA9 will respond, rather than give us a "freedom week" on off roster handguns.

[moleculo]

So now I can get two-tone?

LMAO

[robledor]

So what does this mean? Can someone please dumb it down for me?

[Metal God]

Would every manufacture now go and submit every variation of every model they have (IIRC even frame color has to be a sperate entry)? How much dose it cost to get a handgun on the roster?

No but they will submit there most popular like the P365 , G43 etc at first then slowly add as research shows it will be profitable .

[Librarian]

Here we go boys!

https://storage.courtlistener.com/re...747.60.0_1.pdf

A. Likelihood of Success on the Merits

Plaintiffs are likely to succeed on the merits of their claim that the UHA?s CLI, MDM, and microstamping requirements violate the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution.

That looks rather promising.

[CCWFacts]

True, but how long would the process take?

From what I understand about the process, it could be completed in a day, but obviously, everything takes longer than that. Maybe Glock would rush their Gen 5 19 through because that would probably be the #1 selling handgun in California if it were available.

How much dose it cost to get a handgun on the roster?

Not much. A few thousand dollars. Any manufacturer that expects to sell more than a few dozen guns here would do it.

What if I want a stripped Glock frame? Would Glock even submit that to the roster, or would it be covered by the complete handgun?

I don't believe a stripped frame would be possible. Few people want to get those, but unfortunately for those who do, it wouldn't pass because the roster requires firing the gun. Does Glock ever sell stripped frames? I don't think they do.

This is a good win, but the ideal would be to get rid of the roster all together. This two week injunction is more to see how CA9 will respond, rather than give us a "freedom week" on off roster handguns.

It would be very nice to get rid of it entirely. The other issue is no longer in production guns, or guns from very small manufacturers that might not be able to roster them. And stripped frames, as you mentioned.

[Metal God]

UHA?s CLI, MDM,

For us that can't think right now , can we please have what those acronyms mean ?

EDIT

ARE HEREBY PRELIMINARILY RESTRAINED AND ENJOINED from implementing or enforcing California Penal Code sections 31910(b)(4)?(6), or from otherwise preventing the retail sale of handguns that do not have a chamber load indicator, a magazine disconnect mechanism, or microstamping capability

[SpudmanWP]

I'll ask the question everyone wants to know:

Are we likely to be able to buy off-roster guns in 14 days? Time for Gen 5 Glocks?

Here is the order

NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that Defendant Attorney General Robert Bonta, and his officers, agents, servants, employees, and attorneys, and those persons in active concert or participation with him, and those duly sworn state peace officers and federal law enforcement officers who gain knowledge of this injunction order or know the existence of this injunction order, ARE HEREBY PRELIMINARILY RESTRAINED AND ENJOINED from implementing or enforcing California Penal Code sections 31910(b)(4)?(6), or from otherwise preventing the retail sale of handguns that do not have a chamber load indicator, a magazine disconnect mechanism, or microstamping capability but that meet the other requirements of the Unsafe Handgun Act.

It all comes down to whatever is left of the "Unsafe Handgun Act".

Unfortunately, the ruling leaves the Roster itself intact so mfgs would still need to submit pistols for approval.

Given that this is just the PI stage, the final ruling may dismantle the Roster or leave it in place.

That being said, the Roster itself is not a "requirement" that is on the pistol, but a responsibility of the State so.... "maybe".

Lastly, "manual Safety" is still a requirement.

[CGZ]

For us that can't think right now please have what those acronyms mean ?

Unsafe Handgun Act, Chamber Loaded indicator, magazine disconnect mechanism. Might not be exact, but that's what those are referring to.

[skeeter149]

I believe mom is mag disconnect, cli is loaded chamber indicator, and others microstamping