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Miller v. Bonta 9th Ckt "assault weapons": Held for Duncan result 1-26-24

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  • BAJ475
    Calguns Addict
    • Jul 2014
    • 5052

    Originally posted by bruss01
    ... in doing so you have to understand that you are not just going to a higher authority, but now you're involving people/lives/decisions OUTSIDE the Southern District of California. You're involving people and situations and laws that are outside of California, in other states that are also part of the 9th.
    Not really. Other than HI, we don't have AW bans.

    So - you don't think those states should be able to weigh in on decisions that might affect their residents, their laws, and their court precedents? They HAVE to have that opportunity if the interests of justice are to be served in the entire circuit.
    There is nothing to weigh in about, other than to point out how violative of the 2A California laws are.

    Not only that - The system has a bias for causing as little "sea change" as possible. For every big decision that changes something fundamental, there are a hundred or a thousand "little" issues that now have to be re-decided. This overwhelms the courts, makes law books outdated, makes knowledge that police, prosecutors, judges and others "obsolete". While you may think that's a "good thing" when it comes to setting an issue right (according to YOUR viewpoint) just imagine when the shoe is on the other foot and now you have to re-litigate cases you "won" which are now superseded.

    As far as the 9th putting other 2A cases "on hold" pending decisions at SCOTUS - they kind of have to do this when they know a case is in the pipeline that may render a judgment of theirs obsolete. That just wastes a lot of everybody's time, because then the court has to re-hear and re-decide the case. This actually favors us in the long run because our resources are more scarce than the states... and the money spent re-hearing a certain case is better spent on initial litigation for the NEXT case.

    People get impatient and are prone to assign the worst possible motives, but the system exists because - imperfect and sometimes frustrating though it may be - it's actually a fairly decent method for deciding big issues and the laws surrounding them with as little general disruption as possible.

    If every case coming through the system had the potential to overnight turn everything upside down, there would be a huge bias against such cases being filed/heard.

    The way forward here is to work the process, let the 9th do it's worst, and then let SCOTUS make it clear what constitutional criteria any decision of theirs will have to satisfy. In this case that means waiting out NYSRPA and then letting the 9th hear the cases we have in the pipeline presently. Judge Benitez has done an excellent job of showing our team the winning arguments and where the state is vulnerable through errors in logic, procedure, and matters of fact. The job for our side now is to properly exploit that information - get a pry-bar into that crack and really put our back into it.

    Yes it's slow. But doing it right means we do it once (one tiny chunk at a time if necessary) and have it done-done. Creating a foundation that not only ourselves but our heirs, and theirs, can build on to secure the future of the 2nd amendment.
    Actually, there is an alternate path forward that is much faster with guaranteed favorable results. It called being an Idahoan.

    Comment

    • kuug
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2014
      • 773

      Originally posted by IVC
      And that decision was made by the ninth. Absolutely nothing changed with respect to merits or the legal part of the appeals process. They just shifted the timeline.

      SCOTUS would never waste even their clerk's time to meddle with timelines. It's hard enough to get them to take a serious case on merits. It would be like asking a CEO to organize a meeting about which intern will ensure there are enough coffee filters next to the coffee machine.
      Like hell it was. The 9th didn't show that California would suffer irreparable harm nor did they show that California was likely to win on the merits. Do we, as the peasantry, not deserve our fair share of due process in all of this? Or is the government of California and all of it's 2A hostility the only one in this conversation worthy of having proper treatment in the judicial process?

      Again I ask, is the bar for an injunction merits/irreparable harm or is it merely "what was the condition before the lawsuit"? Because if it's the second then that is not what the procedure is in the 9th rules and the system is rigged in the state's favor. Nobody should be fine with that.

      Comment

      • IVC
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Jul 2010
        • 17594

        Originally posted by kuug
        The 9th didn't show that California would suffer irreparable harm nor did they show that California was likely to win on the merits. Do we, as the peasantry, not deserve our fair share of due process in all of this?
        We ARE in the "due process." This is what it looks like, and this is why it's called a "process." No point-and-shoot is available with the legal system, it's a process.
        sigpicNRA Benefactor Member

        Comment

        • AbrahamBurden
          Member
          • Jul 2011
          • 261

          Originally posted by BAJ475
          Actually, there is an alternate path forward that is much faster with guaranteed favorable results. It called being an Idahoan.
          The trouble with running away is that sooner or later, you run out of places. Just look at how Nevada's governor signed that bill to ban 80% firearms. You're fooling yourself if you think those "favorable results" will last for perpetuity, especially as many other Californians have the same idea of "becoming an Idahoan" but bring with them Californian (Democrat/****lib/RINO) voting habits; Boise is filled with such rootless cosmopolitans.

          Comment

          • kuug
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2014
            • 773

            Originally posted by IVC
            We ARE in the "due process." This is what it looks like, and this is why it's called a "process." No point-and-shoot is available with the legal system, it's a process.
            No, there wasn't a process. California was justifiably called out by the district court to be enforcing the most severe type of burden on an enumerated right, a complete ban. There are rules and procedures for an injunction on that ruling and they were bypassed completely. The 9th did not show one iota of a justification for the ban by the 9th circuits own rules. There was NO PROCESS only a rubber stamp to keep California's desired state of being hidden behind the 9th circuits desire to ignore Heller with this absurd logjam of cases as it's justification. Miller doesn't even challenge the same PCs as Rupp.

            We already had this discussion in 2008 and the Supreme Court ruled in our favor of commonly owned weapons like the AR15. Now we FINALLY have a 5-4 majority willing to take on straight 2A cases like Corlett and seemingly nobody has the cojones to even apply for an appeal to see if SCOTUS is willing to back up Heller? I'm so disgusted by all of this.

            Comment

            • rplaw
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2014
              • 1808

              Originally posted by BAJ475
              Actually, there is an alternate path forward that is much faster with guaranteed favorable results. It called being an Idahoan.
              Wait, you're a potato?

              Who knew...
              Some random thoughts:

              Somebody's gotta be the mole so it might as well be me. Seems to be working so far.

              Evil doesn't only come in black.

              Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise!

              My Utubery

              Comment

              • kuug
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2014
                • 773

                ONE MORE THING IVC, the Supreme Court showed a very active shadow docket since Barrett came into the picture with these COVID rulings on religious activity. So yes, the Supreme Court does play with timelines. Any illusions presented otherwise are comically out of touch. See Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn v Cuomo.

                Comment

                • M8R
                  Junior Member
                  • May 2020
                  • 15

                  Originally posted by bruss01
                  People seem to not have a grasp on how the process works.

                  Judge Benitez presides over the US District Court of Southern California.

                  His decisions only set precedent in that district and are binding at the level of his court and below.

                  In order to appeal any decision made in his Court, you have to go to a higher court. But in doing so you have to understand that you are not just going to a higher authority, but now you're involving people/lives/decisions OUTSIDE the Southern District of California. You're involving people and situations and laws that are outside of California, in other states that are also part of the 9th.

                  So - you don't think those states should be able to weigh in on decisions that might affect their residents, their laws, and their court precedents? They HAVE to have that opportunity if the interests of justice are to be served in the entire circuit.

                  Not only that - The system has a bias for causing as little "sea change" as possible. For every big decision that changes something fundamental, there are a hundred or a thousand "little" issues that now have to be re-decided. This overwhelms the courts, makes law books outdated, makes knowledge that police, prosecutors, judges and others "obsolete". While you may think that's a "good thing" when it comes to setting an issue right (according to YOUR viewpoint) just imagine when the shoe is on the other foot and now you have to re-litigate cases you "won" which are now superseded.

                  As far as the 9th putting other 2A cases "on hold" pending decisions at SCOTUS - they kind of have to do this when they know a case is in the pipeline that may render a judgment of theirs obsolete. That just wastes a lot of everybody's time, because then the court has to re-hear and re-decide the case. This actually favors us in the long run because our resources are more scarce than the states... and the money spent re-hearing a certain case is better spent on initial litigation for the NEXT case.

                  People get impatient and are prone to assign the worst possible motives, but the system exists because - imperfect and sometimes frustrating though it may be - it's actually a fairly decent method for deciding big issues and the laws surrounding them with as little general disruption as possible.

                  If every case coming through the system had the potential to overnight turn everything upside down, there would be a huge bias against such cases being filed/heard.

                  The way forward here is to work the process, let the 9th do it's worst, and then let SCOTUS make it clear what constitutional criteria any decision of theirs will have to satisfy. In this case that means waiting out NYSRPA and then letting the 9th hear the cases we have in the pipeline presently. Judge Benitez has done an excellent job of showing our team the winning arguments and where the state is vulnerable through errors in logic, procedure, and matters of fact. The job for our side now is to properly exploit that information - get a pry-bar into that crack and really put our back into it.

                  Yes it's slow. But doing it right means we do it once (one tiny chunk at a time if necessary) and have it done-done. Creating a foundation that not only ourselves but our heirs, and theirs, can build on to secure the future of the 2nd amendment.
                  Oh god forbid the seas of change become too large that the government's time is consumed, and the police and judges have to re-learn the laws and new books have to be written. Oh no....we are far better off allowing the unjust suffering of harm and violation of constitutional rights while we get our "ducks in a row." Makes perfect sense.

                  Comment

                  • LSBLMB
                    Junior Member
                    • Apr 2021
                    • 25

                    Originally posted by gobler
                    Yes I'm impatient. I had/have these rights prior to 1989. Then this state decided to take my rights by threat of imprisonment or death. They can decide on gay rights or immigration in a matter of months; yet our 2nd Amendment rights can take decades! At this point I am deciding to no longer abide by the abuse of this state..
                    I agree with you 100 percent on this.

                    Comment

                    • nick
                      CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                      CGN Contributor
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 19143

                      Originally posted by kuug
                      Like hell it was. The 9th didn't show that California would suffer irreparable harm nor did they show that California was likely to win on the merits. Do we, as the peasantry, not deserve our fair share of due process in all of this? Or is the government of California and all of it's 2A hostility the only one in this conversation worthy of having proper treatment in the judicial process?

                      Again I ask, is the bar for an injunction merits/irreparable harm or is it merely "what was the condition before the lawsuit"? Because if it's the second then that is not what the procedure is in the 9th rules and the system is rigged in the state's favor. Nobody should be fine with that.
                      Not being able to exercise one's civil rights for additional months or years sounds like irreparable harm to me. As opposed to... what in case of the State of CA? What irreparable harm do they suffer other than their bruised bloated tyrannic ego?
                      DiaHero Foundation - helping people manage diabetes. Sending diabetes supplies to Ukraine now, any help is appreciated.

                      DDR AK furniture and Norinco M14 parts kit: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1756292
                      sigpic

                      Comment

                      • BAJ475
                        Calguns Addict
                        • Jul 2014
                        • 5052

                        Originally posted by AbrahamBurden
                        The trouble with running away is that sooner or later, you run out of places. Just look at how Nevada's governor signed that bill to ban 80% firearms. You're fooling yourself if you think those "favorable results" will last for perpetuity, especially as many other Californians have the same idea of "becoming an Idahoan" but bring with them Californian (Democrat/****lib/RINO) voting habits; Boise is filled with such rootless cosmopolitans.
                        I did not run away. If anything, I escaped with my AWs. My primary reason for moving to northern Idaho was to be closer to other family members. Idaho's lack of firearm restrictions and protections against such laws was just icing on the cake.

                        Idaho is not Nevada. Idaho is much more firearm friendly than Nevada. Idaho is also solidly red, unlike Nevada. IMHO any bill to ban any sort of firearm or precursor part would violate the Idaho Constitution and more importantly, I doubt that any Idaho governor would sign such a bill, for fear of being lynched.

                        I am not in Boise so cannot speak to the libtard problem there. Actually Boise is still red, although I will agree that there are too many Dems and libtards in that area.

                        Comment

                        • BAJ475
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Jul 2014
                          • 5052

                          Originally posted by rplaw
                          Wait, you're a potato?

                          Who knew...
                          Are you saying that it was not clear from my post? When I was in CA I never thought that being called a potato would be a compliment, now I know better.
                          Always great to have friendly discussions with other 2A supporters.

                          Comment

                          • BrokerB
                            Calguns Addict
                            • Sep 2010
                            • 5101

                            Hold on..you had "aw" in Kalifornia? Truly select fire ? Or just using the PRK's demented vocabulary?

                            As far as " not playing their game"..... so do you not shoot at public range then? I have a stupid unsafe grip fin on my wasr..... ar pistols are mutalated like a sharia law female teenager.

                            I dont feel like being harrassed in public.
                            Beans and Bullets

                            Comment

                            • NorCalAthlete
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2010
                              • 1799

                              9th circuit covers:

                              District of Alaska
                              District of Arizona
                              Central District of California
                              Eastern District of California
                              Northern District of California
                              Southern District of California
                              District of Hawaii
                              District of Idaho
                              District of Montana
                              District of Nevada
                              District of Oregon
                              Eastern District of Washington
                              Western District of Washington

                              Tell me again which of those, besides CA, has an AWB?
                              Your views on any given subject are the sum of the media that you take in, scaled to the weight of the credibility of the source that provides it, seen through a lens of your own values, goals, and achievements.

                              You Are All Ambassadors, Whether You Like It Or Not

                              Pain is the hardest lesson to forget; Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity.

                              Bureaucracy is the epoxy that lubricates the gears of progress.

                              Comment

                              • rplaw
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2014
                                • 1808

                                Originally posted by BAJ475
                                Are you saying that it was not clear from my post? When I was in CA I never thought that being called a potato would be a compliment, now I know better.
                                Always great to have friendly discussions with other 2A supporters.
                                Well, it wasn't clear to me!


                                Yes, I'd like fries with that.
                                Some random thoughts:

                                Somebody's gotta be the mole so it might as well be me. Seems to be working so far.

                                Evil doesn't only come in black.

                                Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise!

                                My Utubery

                                Comment

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