Nationwide warning on cyber-attacks on water systems

[DaveInOroValley]

One thing I need more of in my supplies is potable water. If you missed the article it is:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/warning-about-drinking-water-issued-nationwide/ar-BB1kenLA?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=bb4b88aa4d8e44439e436d7ee4de96f7&ei=24

[Spanky8601]

One thing I need more of in my supplies is potable water. If you missed the article it is:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wa...e4de96f7&ei=24

Another plea for more Federal Money.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

This is what happens when you 'computerize' everything and then 'link' it to a 'centralized' authority.

The dirty little secret is that nothing is 'hack proof' when it comes to computers. It just depends on how badly someone wants to do it.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be protected. But, it does mean that one needs to measure how much it is worth spending vs. how much 'additional' protection is provided.

[Duck Killer]

Bull****. All water plants can easily be ran manually. Hell most of them already are. Water treatment plants are to difficult to poison and for the most point impossible to destroy.

[DaveInOroValley]

We sure have a lot of "experts" here at CalGuns.

[twinfin]

A self reliant lifestyle/homestead solves so many problems!

[Duck Killer]

We sure have a lot of "experts" here at CalGuns.

My dad was a senior water treatment plant operator all my life. I was also a licensed water treatment operator. The biggest threat to a water treatment plant is the loss of power. No power no pumps to move water. Even during 9/11 water treatment plants were not considered a target. Most of these plants produce 10s of millions of gallons a day of drinking water. The volume of water is too much to poison and even if it was poisoned it would be easy to filter out.

Additionally there is reaction time needed for chemicals like chlorine to disinfect the water and for the water to travel to the customers.

As for hacking. All plants can be ran manually. There is micro plants for small communities that might be at risk but that threat would be very limited. Pumps can be turned off and on and flows can be adjusted. Even if a hacker did say increased the chlorine dose or did anything else it would be caught by the manual testing that is done throughout the plant. If that water did leave the plant there would be plenty of time to stop it before it made to the tap of a significant amount of people.

Because water treatment plants are always making changes to the chemical inputs because of always changing raw water conditions going it the plant the operators of the plants are extremely well trained and have experience in dealing with every type of situation. Many water treatment plants and different water districts also have overlapping pipelines or interchanges allowing water to be transferred across the distribution system.

The only way really to attack the water system is on the distribution side and that would be very localized.

[user120312]

The facilities are robust; however, those of us who designed, built and operate them know how to affect things in ways not easy to detect or repair.

I participated in the 'build' part of fresh and sewer treatment plants in my work life, mostly the electric pumps and control systems for them. Interesting work

I've got about 3 months stored and have a sandpoint well and water filtration/sanitation system that those years provided me with. Then there's what's falling on my head right now, 70-80" of rain per year. Then there's a year round creek 20' from the house with a dipper already in it. Water is important.

As mentioned, I think power is key. My largest customer for many years taught me a lot about that. PG&E. Good luck and stay safe!

[twinfin]

I've got about 3 months stored and have a sandpoint well and water filtration/sanitation system

What's a "sandpoint" well? I'm not familiar with that term.

Edited to add: Duh, I could have just looked it up! Looks like "driven point" is another term used.

A driven point well – sometimes called
a sand point – is a small diameter well
made by connecting lengths of 1-1/4” or
2” diameter steel pipe together with
threaded couplings....Installation begins by
driving the point and a single length of pipe into
the ground....Driving is often done by hand using
a post driver....

[user120312]

Yes, about 25' deep in sand and gravel since I live near the beach, with a 1/2hp jet pump to lift and pressurize the system. That was the pump I was talking about in another thread that the Jackery 1000+ wouldn't handle the inrush on.

So far, the system, which parts of date back to the 1970's according to state records, has worked without issue in the decade or so I've owned the place. Only negative is iron but I use chlorine and calcite to precipitate and filter it out.

I'll bet you're getting a good gully washer out of this storm

[mitch1]

Mostly affects those using Siemens PLC's. Stuxnet part 2?

[Reno-Kid]

This is what happens when you 'computerize' everything and then 'link' it to a 'centralized' authority.

The dirty little secret is that nothing is 'hack proof' when it comes to computers. It just depends on how badly someone wants to do it.

That doesn't mean it shouldn't be protected. But, it does mean that one needs to measure how much it is worth spending vs. how much 'additional' protection is provided.

Something I learned is embedded systems OS, where the OS is in the Read Only Memory ROM chip cannot be hacked. Because unlike OS on a hard drive, hackers cannot write code or alter the code directlyto a ROM chip. Very much like the early 80s home computers or today's Chrome Books.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

Something I learned is embedded systems OS, where the OS is in the Read Only Memory ROM chip cannot be hacked. Because unlike OS on a hard drive, hackers cannot write code or alter the code directlyto a ROM chip. Very much like the early 80s home computers or today's Chrome Books.

You're talking about one aspect being 'hack proof.' What about work arounds which obviate the OS instructions? Remember, 'hacking' is about compromising a system, not necessarily any single part of that system. It's about what the goal of the hackers actually is. That's why I said (note the quote marks) noting is 'hack proof.' At some point, you have to go beyond the Read Only Memory to actually execute what the system was intended to do. Put another way, it's not just about hardware. It's about the entirety of a system. Can't get to part of the system, you go another route.

[Reno-Kid]

Very true! 35 - 40 years ago no one would allow foreign citizens (immigrant) to have access to our vital systems, but because of diversity and anti-racism policies they do now.