Safe Room?

[SigP510]

Unfortunately, now a misnomer in Israel.

Been reading about the numerous ?safe rooms? being breached by terrorists.

Makes sense, as it seems the average safe rooms over there are purpose built to withstand/wait out rocket and mortar attacks.

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-inside-safe-room-bomb-shelter-israel-war-palestine-gaza-2023-10?amp

A parallel for us stateside, would be waiting/hiding out from groups of armed thugs and looters during civil unrest/WROL.

Grist for an overwhelmed mill.

[JohnnyMtn]

I think I read that safe rooms in Israel, which are really bomb shelters, by law cannot be locked. I guess the reason being is that if your building does get bombed and you are trapped inside then rescuers can only get inside if it is not locked.

I also read that some of the victims of Hamas were hiding in their shelter when terrorists shot them up and burned them out.

Given the profile of this latest attack, I wonder if Israel will allow safe rooms to be locked.

[OlderThanDirt]

In the absence of a self contained air system with CO2 scrubbers, a safe room only offers temporary refuge, at best. Once inside a safe room you are trapped. Your safe room can then be converted into a gas chamber, pizza oven, or some other kind of death chamber. It costs a small fortune to construct a robust safe room that can provide true protection and preferably a tunnel to allow for escape.

[ASD1]

A safe room only offers temporary refuge. If your help is more than 15-20 min out they are coffins.

[BCDavis]

It's also a good example of how we tend to prep for what we think will be the most likely thing, but then something unexpected happens.

I do think that something like a "safe room" has to be either impenetrable, and self-sustaining, or it should be hidden. Ideally both.

The Israel event also shows how quickly some of these things can happen. People are breaking down your front door, or shooting at your house, and you only have a few seconds to scramble to safety. So that kind of situation would be tricky, if you had a bunker in your yard or something, and didn't have quick access from the interior of your house.

I am looking at shelters in CA, also as fire shelters. So that could be helpful, in the event that someone set your house on fire. If you've designed your shelter to keep you safe, but also provide fresh air, that could help you survive, even if attackers burned your house down, because they couldn't find you inside.

[DaveInOroValley]

I think I read that safe rooms in Israel, which are really bomb shelters, by law cannot be locked. I guess the reason being is that if your building does get bombed and you are trapped inside then rescuers can only get inside if it is not locked.

I also read that some of the victims of Hamas were hiding in their shelter when terrorists shot them up and burned them out.

Given the profile of this latest attack, I wonder if Israel will allow safe rooms to be locked.

They'd be better off allowing any all citizens to be armed.

[user120312]

If one has non-combatants, build it underground and provision for short term survival as typical, including an air supply.

There are also ad-hoc methods of hardening a house if one wishes to go that route as an Alamo. I wouldn't look at it as the first line of defense, rather the last one. The best defense is a good offense.

Coordinate with allies and attack the enemy and cut off their supplies and communications. Taking out strategic bridges and communications nodes in our area would accomplish some of that. Scout those options now. Yes, that is war. That's what we're talking about, right, like in Israel.

Keep a low profile. Gray man. I do that by being the least attractive target in the neighborhood. Within that envelope strategic hardening can be accomplished. Junk isn't always as it seems.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

In a sense, a 'safe room' is a variation on the bug in or bug out debate and is, in essence, the same discourse as bomb shelters. As we know, that debate is never ending and irresolvable to everyone's satisfaction. It is also very dependent upon the circumstances.

If your safe room is intended as a 'final measure,' then you'd best hope that help isn't far away and that they get the message. Even the best, 'hidden' locations can be discovered and breached by a determined enemy. In that sense, a 'safe room' isn't intended as a long term solution, but as a method for buying time until assistance can arrive; i.e., they provide a temporary respite, something the OP article notes. Add to that that most safe rooms are intended to provide temporary respite from specific threats rather than being designed as protection against every, conceivable happenstance and you begin to get a sense for their limitations. Add in budgetary, space, materials, etc. restrictions and you get an even better sense.

Note that a fallout shelter intended to protect the family against nuclear fallout couldn't withstand a determined effort by neighbors in a panic in this episode of The Twilight Zone...



Safety is a relative thing and, as such, options are preferable; which is why some safe rooms have an 'escape tunnel/hatch.' It's why all the good ones have communications capability. In short, safe rooms are only safe until they're not and, just as with bug in/bug out scenarios, knowing when or if they're not and being able and willing to abandon it for an alternative is going to be key.

[Kokopelli]

If armed madmen are ransacking your kibbutz, the best option is to make them have a very bad day. Any minuteman should grab their go bag at the first sound of gunfire and explosions. Make things -less easy- for the bad guys.

In war stories, I've read of lone snipers that have pinned down an entire column of troops. Some small American states have over 50,000 hunters. Sadly for Israel, they did not have those numbers on October 7, 2023. But those in the kibbutz who did fight back were successful and most of them survived.